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Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

blogs.windows.com

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Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#431

Post by scarface74 »

thesuperbigfrog wrote: post #385
scarface74 wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't claim to speak for what most people want. I think having more options than iOS and Android could help promote more consumer-friendly choices. Using Linux on the phone with the lack of integration, the poor interface etc is the opposite of “consumer friendly”. Normal consumers are not asking for the ability to “program their phone and run media servers”. > Android is innovative because it is more open than i…

>> Using Linux on the phone with the lack of integration, the poor interface etc is the opposite of “consumer friendly”. Who said anything about using Linux on phones? I agree that a third smartphone platform would need to be user friendly. Whether based on Linux, OpenBSD, QNX, Symbian, or something is just a technical detail. >> Normal consumers are not asking for the ability to “program their phone and run media se…

> Yes, but "Closed" sucks for everyone but the platform owners.

If you ask 99%+ of phone users. They don’t care about a “closed” phone platform anymore than console owners care.

> iOS developers have been suffering and Apple has little reason it fix the issues: https://www.wired.com/story/apples-app-store-review-fix-fail...

And what percentage of iOS users that collectively making billions are “suffering”?

> Some organizations are trying to get "Open" smartphone marketplaces and more choice and competition in the markets:

And failing miserable. The market has spoken.

> Open standards and open markets encourage real competition and innovation.

And yet, it wasn’t “open standards” that brought any of the “innovations” to the market that users care about.

How many decades have Linux advocates been promising the “year of the Linux desktop”?

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#432

Post by hestefisk »

MBCook wrote: post #405
Damogran6 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a way, it's not much different than when they were porting Windows NT to Dec ALPHA. (But I suspect ARM has legs, where Alpha didn't)

Didn’t NT actually start on the Alpha and end up with x86 becoming a co-platform (and later main platform) during development?

Close. The original NT targeted an experimental Intel cpu called i860 (RISC based) nicknamed “N10”. NT was, according to Wikipedia, a play on words for the target cpu architecture.

From Wikipedia: “One of the original NT developers, Mark Lucovsky, states that the name was taken from the original target processor—the Intel i860, code-named N10 ("N-Ten")”.

NT was always supposed to be multi architecture (MIPS, Alpha, IA-32). I’m not sure what happened to i860.

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#433

Post by e12e »

withinrafael wrote: post #420

This is Microsoft's second go at a developer-focused ARM kit. You may recall the first was called the Snapdragon Developer Kit [1] and was a miserable machine. It appears Microsoft has already pulled it from the Microsoft Store [2]. There is no other supported desktop/CI/etc. solution for Windows on ARM. (Mac mini with Parallels/VMware is a popular unsupported alternative. It may still be your fastest.) Seems like a…

> There is no other supported desktop/CI/etc. solution for Windows on ARM.

What about Surface Pro X? Not desktop enough?

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/surface-pro-arm-ap...

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#434

Post by csdvrx »

kotaKat wrote: post #336
Joe_Boogz wrote: post #197

It appears the consensus is HN is hesitant about the Windows on ARM push. I really want this to succeed. If this gains traction then we should start seeing support for windows laptops on ARM. As a dev who prefers windows but has a m1 MacBook b/c of the battery life I really hope this works out.

Yeah, I'm sitting here shocked at everyone's hate. I took a major leap and bought a Thinkpad X13s, with the same 8cx Gen 3 CPU this thing has. I am beyond impressed at it. Windows 11 on it - while, yes, it's Windows 11 with its own concerns and issues - runs flawlessly. I've been able to run my traditional x86 and x64 workloads - even things like arm64 Tailscale without issues, and I get amazing battery life. I am 10…

I love windows and wanted to give it a try, but the lack of OLED option is bothering me.

Can you comment about the battery life and the "traditional x86" workloads? Does it use a just-in-time compilation? (I haven't looked at the details yet)

Can you dual boot to a Linux arm64 distribution?

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#435

Post by ultrasounder »

MBCook wrote: post #396
ultrasounder wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

THIS! Apple:- fair warning an inside Bollywood joke. Apple:- “Mere paas M1/M2/MAX,A16, Hain “ and looks at MSFT and asks “Tere paas kya Hain”? MSFT:- Shoulder shrugs and says “Mere Paas Excel Hain”. Apple has nothing on Excel. And Numbers languishes Excel by a few generations. Esp after the boatload of updates that Excel APIs got last year. I guess it’s all about priorities and what’s important for that business at t…

That wasn’t what I was trying to say. I know there is Windows only software. I know there is software that’s better on Windows. I don’t care if people switch to Mac. They should all have the choice of a chip as good (or reasonably close) to the M1. But they don’t. And it doesn’t look like that’s changing. And I find that sad.

Okay! Thanks for the clarification!

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#436

Post by counttheforks »

karamanolev wrote: post #92
counttheforks wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Break the build tools for their cash cow about once a month, and forbid anyone from developing for it without spending thousands of dollars on new hardware?

Seems to be working out for them alright. I'd love to make fun of them for similar reasons, but look at market, and more importantly, mind, share...

Where would we be if we can't make fun of popular things?

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#437

Post by saagarjha »

GeekyBear wrote: post #179
blinkingled wrote: post #99

Microsoft's Apple envy continues - additionally hobbled by Qualcomm's indistinguished/2nd rate hardware and disinterested developers.

Well, if they had copied Apple, they would have offered a $499 developer test kit that you could use for a year to port your app(s) to ARM and then return for a $200 credit. Then you wouldn't be stuck paying way more for much less capable hardware.

$500 credit.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#438

Post by Scharkenberg »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #411
Scharkenberg wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite much FUD spread in Linux nerd circles online, Linux can run just fine on it.

I have a Surface RT which disagrees.

In case it was not immediately obvious, this discussion is not about the Surface RT, but about the Windows Dev Kit 2023. It ships with a different Windows version, on a different Arm architecture, with different policies regarding locking down.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#439

Post by Affric »

Joe_Boogz wrote: post #197

It appears the consensus is HN is hesitant about the Windows on ARM push. I really want this to succeed. If this gains traction then we should start seeing support for windows laptops on ARM. As a dev who prefers windows but has a m1 MacBook b/c of the battery life I really hope this works out.

Constant length instructions.

Chip design that's easier to put things like memory into an SOC.

Windows on ARM can only be good for computing.

Re: Available Today: Windows Dev Kit 2023 a.k.a. Project Volterra

#440

Post by gjsman-1000 »

withinrafael wrote: post #420

This is Microsoft's second go at a developer-focused ARM kit. You may recall the first was called the Snapdragon Developer Kit [1] and was a miserable machine. It appears Microsoft has already pulled it from the Microsoft Store [2]. There is no other supported desktop/CI/etc. solution for Windows on ARM. (Mac mini with Parallels/VMware is a popular unsupported alternative. It may still be your fastest.) Seems like a…

I remember when that came out. Shocking it's already replaced.

Anyone who is still interested can buy one on eBay straight from Microsoft's eBay Outlet (which surprisingly exists):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/255784903190

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