Earlier quoted context omitted.
Quoted post unavailable.
"mad"
big mad
Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B
431–440 of 458 posts
Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B
#432Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google forced them to take the Play Store and search widget (including default search engine) as a condition to get Play Services. Play Services is required by a majority of android apps and developping and maintening a compatible system layer is just out of reach of most(all?) device makers.
Yes, but my point is - can’t they they just not use the play store at all like lineageos? Ultimately Google will always have control over android if what you’re saying is true unless an alternative ecosystem is created
You’re asking if Motorola can’t just sell a phone that cannot run most of published android apps out of the box.
> unless an alternative ecosystem is created
That can’t happen while Google is free to do anything to crush potential competitors (they’re also found bullying makers out of bundling stuff like third party stores on their phones, and the chinese makers seem to be the only ones getting away with it), so the only way out is basically to lawsuit the hell out of the situation.
Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B
#433> This is Google's third EU antitrust fine. Previously, the search giant was fined in a shopping case and an online advertising case. Apparently, "three strikes and you're out" only applies to individuals, who with a repeat offense of this magnitude would have their lives destroyed by the justice system, and get locked away for a decade or more.
We really need the equivalent of jail time for companies. Clearly after a certain size, fines do not cut it. Jailing executives is too hard, so laws should exist that remove the company from a market for x years or something, like if they were in a cell.
> We really need the equivalent of jail time for companies.
I would love this, but there are so many irritating practical problems with it that I'd prefer we expand the cases where we can "pierce the corporate veil"; we should absolutely shield people from personal liability from good-faith failures when we work for a company, but when we see fraud, wage theft, and so on, we should be a great deal more willing to chase personal liability for decision-makers.
Something that's driven a big change in safety culture in New Zealand was allowing certain types of health and safety prosecutions to proceed against individuals, so that (for example) a site manager who decides that start-of-day hazard briefings on a building site are a waste of 15 minutes can be fined or even imprisoned if someone ends up hurt as a result.
Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B
#434Quoted post unavailable.
By this criticism, are we to understand that you're against all fines collected by the government? Everything from parking tickets to penalties paid for crimes, misdemeanors, felonies by citizens etc? If that's the case, that seems like a very fringe perspective, consistent only with "all taxation is theft" flavored libertarianism.
EU is a democratically accountable institution, in theory (and also in practice) voters are able to affect the way these fines are used, and how they're collected. Yes, these fines are not going to be redistributed into EU citizens' pockets, but they will be used in ways that will benefit EU citizens one way or another.
Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B
#435Cool. The EU does have its [many!] faults. But they have a pretty good track record when it comes to consumer rights and consumer choice. Next up I'd like to see them do the same for the plethora of incompatible cordless power-tool systems out there as they did with insisting all mobile phones standardise on a USB connector.
> The EU does have its [many!] faults.
Curious/out of the loop: any (unbiased?) examples?
Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B
#436Earlier quoted context omitted.
The irony is that if Google had not licensed Android and only manufactured its own devices, like Apple does, it could restrict consumer options much more harshly without EU fines and restrictions.
If Google chose that path, other manufacturers would still need an OS to put on their phones - and it's likely Windows Phone would be the contender. So maybe we'd live in a world with 3 mobile OS's and more competition. The point is, the alternative scenario involves more actors making different choices.
I'm still bitter about Windows Phone. Nokia's hardware was great, Windows Phone was great, but only Microsoft Partners had permission to access the low level APIs that mattered...effectively neutering app development.
Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B
#437Earlier quoted context omitted.
#2 is the same thing Microsoft got busted for by US antitrust in the late 90s. Microsoft had required computer vendors to NOT sell computers with other OSes (eg Linux). At one point they insisted computer vendors pay for a Windows license on all computers they shipped, even ones shipped without Windows.
The video deposition of Gates was pretty damning during their anti-trust case. I just remember watching it and having my image of Gates shattered right in front of me. The amount of unhinged arrogance and hubris he had was startling. I know it really damaged his clean cut, good guy image and many of my friends said it completely reversed their opinion of him.
I found a highlights video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRelVFm7iJE
(I see the full 11 hour deposition is also on YouTube, but I think I'll save that for another day.)
So far, being 10 minutes in, I see a little bit of what you mean, but I haven't gotten to anything "unhinged" yet. He just seems like a bit of a smug nerd who's clearly enjoying going toe-to-toe with one of the country's top lawyers.
Do you remember anything that jumped out for you from the deposition? I'd love to see more of what you're getting at.
Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B
#438Earlier quoted context omitted.
Windows Phone was always destined to fall. There is no scenario in which Windows Phone would not been beaten into irrelevance by Google and by Microsoft's own actions in undermining their underwhelming and unpopular mobile OS.
Windows phone was destined to fail mainly because they were the third to show up to a two-man race. If Android never showed up, or completely biffed it at the starting line, then Windows Phone probably could have succeeded with enough time. The other possible alternative is Palm WebOS, but I think they were too Apple-like for their own good. The key differentiators that helped Android succeed as an iPhone alternative…
In my opinion Windows Phone had a lot of promise, which I think was definitely tied to solid hardware Nokia was making at the time. Microsoft pretty much made it impossible for meaningful apps to be developed by the average joe though (Read: API restrictions) and I think that really helped Windows Phone become obsolete.
Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B
#439The fallout from this should be interesting. This fine is a substantial part (roughly 25%!) of Google's overall revenue from the EMEA region (Europe, Middle East, Africa), of which the EU is probably like 90%, at least, of the total, so it's probably toing the line of actually making the EU unprofitable to Google considering the costs of future compliance to avoid being fined again. Worse: this was not as steep as th…
Imagine Google had to find a different revenue model than harvesting and selling personal information? What would they even do? Could Cloud or Workspace even prop up the company?
Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B
#440Earlier quoted context omitted.
Far from me to want to put Microsoft on a pedestal, but it always felt like neither liked playing fair. WP eventually got a third party Youtube app that kinda stuck for a while, but it was paid (and actually decent) and AFAIK it never got any attention from Google, which to me always felt more like Google was trying to be an ass and protecting their revenue... but mostly their Android revenue. I was around when Proje…
Project Astoria had weird timing, considering Microsoft initially submitted an amicus brief in Oracle v Google on Oracle's side, i.e. supporting the notion that APIs are copyrightable - which was awkward as Astoria implemented Android APIs. Sometime later, after both sides appealed, MS submitted another amicus - this time on Google's side. Possibly after seeing the light with WSL and Astoria
Oh, and if Google had lost its case against Oracle, they could have gone after Microsoft for Astoria, and the amicus would have been first exhibit to prove willful infringement.