Live data from Hacker News

I regret my website redesign

mtlynch.io

431–440 of 789 posts

Re: I regret my website redesign

#431
post #381

I can't remember seeing a website redesign in my entire life that didn't make the site worse. Many sites have gone down the tubes due to redesigns while always blaming the failure on something else. Kudos for at least having the self-awareness to realize that your redesign didn't help. To first order, there's (usually) only one site metric that really matters, and that's page load speed. Craigslist still thrives desp…

I wouldn't call Craigslist "thriving", it's still alive but it seems like Facebook Marketplace took over a lot of what it did.

I think Facebook Marketplace is thriving but mainly because it inserts itself into people's other behavior, maybe not because people think it's the best platform for exchanging goods. In fact, it could really use some of the moderation features of Craigslist.

After much creative destruction, we're back to inserting classified ads next to the stuff people are reading to pass the time.

Re: I regret my website redesign

#432

Digital Agency Owner Here... I have to say, this is difficult to read and it gives a bad name to other agencies. - I think the first "mistake" was not having it as a fixed price. We spend a lot of time up-front defining the scope and get sign off before committing to the work. After that, we roll it through the relevant departments. We take the risk on for bugs/issues (that are within scope) and do the project as a f…

As the agency owner, how would you have felt reading this if the author had named the agency?

It really bugs me how people take a "protect the innocent" approach to these articles when in reality they should be saying loud and clear who the offender is.

Re: I regret my website redesign

#433
Previous agency hack here of many years (many agencies). Do not take anything communicated to you from businesses like this at face value. Ignore the tone. The Isaac's of this world are not your friend. In fact, they likely personally orchestrated the scenario and tailored the ongoing narrative. I realise how cynical this sounds, but I'm certain your Isaac would agree.

Agencies (and Isaacs) have a place. They are useful for large orgs where certain expectations and business/operating aesthetics are demanded. Agency workflows and billables have evolved specifically for this climate of largesse. Buyer beware.

Re: I regret my website redesign

#435
I've been through this exact same story during my home remodel with a ~~contractor~~ handyman. The problem as far as I can tell is that when you pay someone hourly there is exactly zero incentive to make those hours go away. I don't believe people intentionally try to abuse the setup, it is just doomed to be a common outcome because of the structure. If you pay someone hourly they want to spend those hours doing their best work to maximize the quality of the referral they'll get when they're done. It's too easy to forget that timeframe (i.e. budget) is part of what most people care about during a project. And for better or worse most people do prefer "better late than never" to "rushed and shoddy" so it's probably a fair bet for contractors to implicitly make.

I also empathize with the author in terms of "why didn't you just do this and that" and the whole sunk cost fallacy. It's really easy to be on the outside and give the obvious retrospective advice that you should have fired X and switched to Y once you saw a few red flags. But that too, even if it makes logical and financial sense when you model it out still involves risks. There's no guarantee the next agency will be any better than the current so you're making a bet priced at the cost of treading while getting the next agency spun up. And ultimately humans are involved. It sounds like the issues with the project were being communicated and responded to during the project lifecycle so there's hope that the miss-steps will be corrected.

It's really hard. The silver lining, in my case and the author's, is that hopefully, despite the issues, all said and done you'll get a return on your investment. For me I simply don't want to lose money I'm not in the housing market to make money, I just need a place to raise a family.

The hard advice takeaway: if you have a budget and expectations about how a project will be delivered, you ABSOLUTELY NEED those codified in a contract. Shop around until you are willing to find someone who will agree to share the risk and deliver on a statement of work for a fixed cost. I understand in a competitive market this is hard because contractors and firms can easily go find "other" work. But the more pressure the better. Try structuring the project to have diminishing returns or financial penalties for being delivered late. Handymen or otherwise hourly arangements have their place for small jobs on the order of 1 or 2 days max 1 week of work. But hourly doesn't buy you any executive function: which is needed to manage hourly work. Keep in mind, in most cases, if these hourly people were skilled at executive function then they'd own a contracting firm, manage a team, and be profiting...

The whole experience has really made me wonder why any startups pay salary before they're profitable. Because as many know, this happens all the time internally with full time salaried employees too. No incentive complete work until the very last moment necessary. Deadlines and punishments for not meeting them are incredibly important. I mean I get it, a salary says "I need you around for this much because otherwise my business doesn't work" so it emotionally makes sense and I'm not saying the industry should stop doing it. BUT, I also have a seen a lot of work be dished out to salaried employees when it could have otherwise been structured as a 5k or 10k contract with a statement of work and payment remitted upon completion. I'm surprised you don't see more of that blend. I guess SASS is kinda a stand-in but still.

Re: I regret my website redesign

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some feedback from a person who is the target audience of your product: https://tinypilotkvm.com/illustrations/tinypilot-overview-il... is the most prominent image on your site and of little value in my opinion. Rather than have a sketch that looks like it very well could just be a stock image (and my brain is trained to ignore this type of image), I recommend having actual photos that show the same scene. A photo of…

Thanks for reading! I appreciate the feedback, but the hard part about feedback like this is: how do I identify who's right? Half the people in the thread are saying the old design is better, and half are saying the new design is better. If I could flip a switch and try the design you're describing and see how it affects sales, I'd try it, but taking professional photographs and redesigning the site is several thousa…

I'll throw another opinion at you.

The biggest problem is that the device's box looks 3d printed, and I associate that with "hobbyist/prototype" automatically. I would also prefer to see the real device over stock art, but if a picture of the device evokes unreliability, then removing the real photo may have helped for this reason.

Re: I regret my website redesign

#437
post #432

Digital Agency Owner Here... I have to say, this is difficult to read and it gives a bad name to other agencies. - I think the first "mistake" was not having it as a fixed price. We spend a lot of time up-front defining the scope and get sign off before committing to the work. After that, we roll it through the relevant departments. We take the risk on for bugs/issues (that are within scope) and do the project as a f…

As the agency owner, how would you have felt reading this if the author had named the agency? It really bugs me how people take a "protect the innocent" approach to these articles when in reality they should be saying loud and clear who the offender is.

I'm not sure I understand your comment? Who's the offender here?

Re: I regret my website redesign

#438
While the OP says in the post that he's not a rube, this whole post makes me wince and shouts "rube". There's no reason in today's day and age to spend this much or take this much time on a website "redesign", especially if you're a small business or one-person shop selling basically a consumer item. Agile methodology is key. Iterate quickly. Design / test / build quickly and iterate. Any long-term web design project is at high risk of being a waste of time and money. This has been an accepted best practices approach, especially for fast-moving projects for decades.

It does seem like he learned his lesson and at the end he talks about how basically an iterative approach with lots of deliveries and low-cost testing is the best approach. And yes, it's the best-practice. But then again he learned an expensive lesson that if he had asked others about, would have gladly told him. Sometimes people need to learn lessons on their own with their own expense to realize that best practices apply to them, too. I find the lack of acceptance of methodology and best practices approaches very sad.

Re: I regret my website redesign

#439
he is a marketing genius to me, writing stuff that catching eyeballs that might end up selling more his devices, I feel the postmortem of the website project is really not the point(or true goal here) at all.

Re: I regret my website redesign

#440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems to be the point where sunk cost fallacy strikes hard in the post to me. They had paid $X for "80% of the first milestone of work" and that sunk cost locks them in to everything else that happens. They seemed too fearful from that point onward that if they fired the agency and brought in a new agency or freelancer that they would start from square 1 and do all of the previous work (and spend) over again. Th…

Which absolutely makes me think this was a well thought out con designed to prey on those types of fears and maximize the value extracted from the mark. Those lottery phone scams out of Jamaica which target the elderly in the US are almost the exact same scam as what was described here. Promise something, get them to send money, don’t deliver, tell them you need more time/more money. Keep repeating until the mark wal…

Most of my career has been spent at agencies.

I think you're attributing malice to what was more than likely routine mismanagement.

Post reply on HN