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The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

community.frame.work

431–440 of 753 posts

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Apple's chips aren't that far off being twice as fast as Exynos chips in single-core performance. Whereas the latest AMD and Intel chips are more or less on a par. https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-apple_a14_bionic-v...

The 990 is pretty old. I think the latest is the 2200. https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-apple_a14_bionic-v...

The A14 is a generation old at this point. This is a more relevant comparison:

https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-apple_a15_bionic_5...

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it's entirely a coincidence that both https://github.com/brickbots/framedeck/ and https://github.com/penk/MainboardTerminal published 10 days ago, and they're both referenced in this framework announcement. Convenient for Framework that those two projects came out right before their upgrade launch! But I don't just have my own innate cynicism to go on here! The framedeck project write-up actually contains this…

Maybe it's because they only recently released the motherboard as an individually purchasable component?

And maybe that's because they're bringing the new version to market so they're expecting to have some excess stock of the original motherboard that they need to sell down.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#433
post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. Everytime I get excited about Framework, Syste7m6, etc... and then get sad. I fully understand I'm a vanishing minority, But trackpoint is such a productivity booster for me, and makes such amazing use of space in a laptop format, that it's a must-have (and again, I fully understand that those who don't use Trackpoint will have no comprehension of what am I going on about; I'm a grouchy quirky old man :). Then…

> the collapsed arrows which I don't even understand - you have the room, it's right there, nothing is using it... why is everybody making up and down arrows functionally unusable (I want to blame Apple, but as Obi Wan said - who's the bigger fool, the fool, or the fool that follows :) This so much!! I miss PageUp and PageDown there so much I refuse to buy anything but thinkpads right now. The last alternative brand…

HPs still have dedicated pgup / home /etc in a column, to the right of backspace / enter / etc. But they've also adopted the stupid arrow cluster you describe.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#434
post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the same, but the Logitech MX Master is basically the current version of this. It has two scrollwheels, one for vertical and one for horizontal. They have some interesting tech in them. When moved slowly they click with detents, like normal scrollwheels. But when you move the wheels more quickly they "unlock" to spin freely, you can scroll at a pretty high speed and with good accuracy.

Do the scroll wheels have "weight" to them? In other words, can you give it a good spin and let it keep spinning on its own momentum?

Yep, the scrollwheels are metal so they have some heft and they do keep spinning.

I haven't used the MX Master, only very briefly tested a display unit at a store, but I do believe that it spun for a while. So I'd check a video review first if you're thinking of buying one.

I personally use their G(aming) series mice with their older manual, mechanical mechanism instead of the new electromagnetic one in the MX Master. The G mice spin for a while... 15 seconds after a solid flick.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#436

Still no retina display option. Steve Jobs made the right call over a decade ago... the only scaling that looks good after 100% is 200%. Any in-between scaling will have display artifacts. This laptop has 150% scaling. What sort of display artifacts can you expect because of this? Go to a web page with a grid, with 1-pixel horizontal grid lines. Even though all lines are set to 1-pixel, some lines will appear thicker…

besides the fact that "retina display" is a marketing term invented by Apple, I don't really see what the big deal is. I have pretty good vision and I don't notice individual pixels on my 1080p screen. More pixels means more load on the GPU.

I've been on an LG Ultrafine 5k for a year and I consider anything less to be borderline unusable.

> I have pretty good vision

My vision is terrible. Maybe the relationship works the other way around?

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this gets asked a lot and isn't really about this new upgraded model but.. Any news on plans for AMD models?

Why AMD? Why is there so little interest in ARM-based Linux laptops? Does AMD (or Intel) have anything even close in performance / watt that one can get from an ARM-based system?

Mainly the non-standardization of ARM hardware currently is my guess. For x86 a lot of it is standardized and well known.

There was a good thread here the other day on the subject of ARM hardware and the difficulties of things such as device trees and odd boot processes

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31409273

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one of those things that once you invest into the learning curve, you're a cultish convert (I certainly am one:)

I've tried them, but they felt so clumsy to me that I don't see how I could ever be a convert. Trackpads, at least on Macs, feel precise and intuitive; I even use one on the desktop (unless I'm gaming). I suppose a trackpoint might be useful if you really want your hands never to leave your keyboard, but generally I'm either editing text with emacs keybindings (where I don't have to use the mouse), or else I'm in a m…

>>they felt so clumsy to me that I don't see how I could ever be a convert.

They do have a learning curve; but FWIW, I feel exact the opposite - I can achieve both lightning fast movement, AND pixel-perfect precision with the trackpoint (the latter I have never managed to consistently achieve on a trackpad).

(Note, for me, it's never a "Trackpoint vs Mouse". I'll use mouse 100% of the time when at my desk. When not at the desk though, it's "Trackpoint vs Trackpad", and for the amount of space it takes, the compromises it instills in keyboard layout and ergonomics, Trackpad never quite worked for me. On aside, I miss the potential of netbooks because a 10" screen with Trackpoint would be a formidable hyper-portable machine with today's ARM processors - but not if you need to reserve 5 inches for a trackpad :| )

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#439
post #2

I'm happy to answer any questions around this! We've been working on this since update since we launched the product last year, so we're excited to be able to share it today.

I know this gets asked a lot and isn't really about this new upgraded model but.. Any news on plans for AMD models?

I think the main issue with AMD might be they lack support for Thunderbolt (last I've heard anyways)

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one of those things that once you invest into the learning curve, you're a cultish convert (I certainly am one:)

What learning curve? Isn't it just a joystick mouse? I think they were competitive with old touchpads (and probably the ones you still get on cheap laptops) but I expect all the people above praising them have just never used a modern Apple touchpad. Far superior. It's not even close. There's a good reason nobody makes them anymore.

>>There's a good reason nobody makes them anymore.

But they do. Last I checked HP, Dell and Lenovo all had options for power users (not in their consumer / mid-range laptops though). Or at the very least, my last several and current clients have all sent me laptops with a Trackpoint from those three brands (and not to my asking; it's just fairly standard for mobile employees or enterprise customers to have Trackpoint included)

>>What learning curve? Isn't it just a joystick mouse?

well, no - to me, that's an inherent contradiction: Mouse and trackpad are both positional (as largely is trackball). Joystick, trackpoint are directional. They are fundamentally different paradigms.

In terms of learning curve, I do believe Trackpoint is less intuitive for most users, as it does have that different paradigm. I think it takes a bit of time to get really good at it - most people who use it for a few minutes feel it's inferior and clumsy. But I've had "races" with my colleagues with Macbooks, and spoiler - I'll agree it's not even close, but not necessarily in the direction you might expect 0:-)

(on aside, I do have a Macbook, it's about 4 years old. How new does a modern it need to be to fit your definition of a modern Apple Trackpad?

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