Live data from Hacker News

A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

npr.org

431–440 of 552 posts

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I realize big government is here to protect us Created by people who mean well perhaps, but subsequently captured by another sort. > Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bureaucracy, many of the enginee…

Isn't that just "management" vs. "production staff"? You can't do both, each are full time jobs.

No post body was provided.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#432
post #417
post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a saying in Ireland called "More Irish than the Irish" and refers to immigrants and non-locals who take up all of the local culture to extreme (compared to the average) levels. Immigrants are statistically the most law abiding and often times, even conservative, members of a a community and it probably is one measure of long-term survival (esp. in the U.S. while living under the microscope of a work visa) so…

Not true in Western Europe. They are heavily overrepresented in crime statistics and their own communities have grown big enough that there’s no need anymore to try to fit in.

What follows is a generalisation from the Australian experience (my experience - I'm a child of first gen migrants i.e. a 2nd generation Australian). For the first generation and some of the second generation this is true. Migrants often don't know the language, and don't have pre-existing connections in the community, so they tend to cluster in areas where there are more people like them (often cheaper places to live). Working, they are more likely to work for other migrants, prolonging the "bubble" and deferring the need to integrate. This generation tends to live productive if somewhat fearful lives - "look at those locals with their degenerate customs!", "They don't like us!", "Be careful! Don't trust them! They'll take advantage!". These attitudes are of course almost exact mirrors of what the locals thing about the migrants. Attitudes primarily born of ignorance and lack of first-hand experience with the "other".

The second generation - children of first gen migrants - go to school, the local language is the one they're more proficient with. Perhaps its true that this generation feels the weight of anti-immigrant feeling more than any other. Mainly because inside, they don't feel that different. They grew up here, went to school here, understand the local culture. They straddle a cultural divide. They bear the weight of anti-immigrant feeling as well as the parental expectations to stay within their original cultural norms. This is rarely achievable. This generation often achieves well due to the over-emphasis on "Get an education! We never had the chance! You have opportunity! Don't squander it!" They feel the burden to do better than their folks very acutely. For those that can't achieve academically, or in business, or in sport - they are easy prey for ethnically aligned gangs. They can "retreat" into their origin culture and use anti-immigrant sentiment to justify bad behaviour.

By the third generation (e.g. my kids), a lot of the anti-immigrant feeling has moved on... to the new groups of migrants. My parents came from Southern Europe to Australia in the 60s. They were the "wogs" and "dagos" of the era. I remember being told in primary school to "go back where you came from!", which confused the hell out of me because I was born in Australia. Now, people from my ethnic origins are considered part of the wallpaper here. No one thinks of them as anything other than Australian (ok, maybe a handful of hardcore racists). In the 70s, the southern Europeans were replaced as the anti-immigrant bogeyman by the Vietnamese. Then the Lebanese. Then the Somalis. Then the Syrians. With each wave, the crime wave moves to a new group. Within a generation (or at most 2), any such spikes have dissipated.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#433
post #47

I don't have any kids, so I don't really feel comfortable telling folks how to raise theirs. But I will tell you my perspective. As someone who grew up in the "be back home in time for supper" 1970s, today's world seems completely foreign. When I started kindergarten, Mom walked me to school on the first day so that I'd know the route. And after that I walked to school on my own until I learned to ride a bike. I rode…

Where can I do this without drivers who will kill my kid? Cars (or SUV's and trucks, really) are faster, heavier, taller, more numerous, and driven far more miles now. They are why my kid can't walk/cycle to school.

Is there data on this though? I'm against the out of control car culture in the US, but cars have generally gotten safer for both drivers and bystanders, right? Yes a giant SUV is bad for pedestrians, but so was a rigid metal box like cars used to be. And drinking and driving is more socially unacceptable than ever.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#434
post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Recently I drove by that school, and the bike racks were gone. This is the thing: the bike racks are gone because so are the kids walking/biking to school. If you let your kid do it, they'll be the only one. I walked to school in the 80s and there were lots of kids in my neighborhood walking to school at the same time. That's a very different experience. I also lived in a neighborhood that was laid out in the early…

> You can't combat this enormous societal change by making an individual effort to let your kids do more by themselves. Maybe not, but you can do things like: * Live downtown instead of in a suburb * Ask your school / DOT to close the street in front of the school during dropoff and pickup hours * Walk with your kid to school instead of driving them * Support higher-density development in your area

You can ask your DOT to close the street in front of the school, but, at least where I live, even if they are supportive it is likely that your child will be out of school before something actually happens. Increasing the density of an area also takes years or even decades.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crime stats are a difficult thing to make comparisons with between jurisdictions and over time. I grew up in 1980s NYC. They flat out didn’t respond to take reports for certain types of crime, and may deliver a beat down to some weirdo following kids around. Unless it’s a clearly serious felony like a murder or burglary, you aren’t really getting any information. I would say that what people worry about is random fre…

> Unless it’s a clearly serious felony like a murder or burglary, you aren’t really getting any information. Good news! The numbers reported in my citation are specifically about: Larceny/Theft, Burglary, Aggraveted Assault, Motor Vehicle Theft, Robbery, Rape, and Murder/Non-Negligent Manslaughter. Every single one of these has drastically decreased since the 90's (90's increased in crime since the 80's but current l…

I interpreted the comment you're replying to such that while the statistics for the serious crimes show a marked decline, parent are not only concerned about those crimes when letting their children walk alone to school and we have poor data about less serious crimes.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#436
post #43
post #27

Disappointing that an article like this wouldn’t mention one of the main reasons children are given less autonomy in the US: our built environment. The vast majority of our children grow up in neighborhoods in which one can’t easily be a pedestrian at any age. Low density communities, in which almost all trips have to be taken in cars, are of course not friendly to non-drivers. Japan builds dense, mixed use neighborh…

I grew up in Bulgaria, but my experience as a kid (80s-90s) seems like similar to what my (future) boss (in Los Angeles) when he was growing up in SF Valley (60s-70s) - get on the bike, go places, school, etc. We had much smaller amount of cars. For one we had these self-made wood carts with ball-bearings as "tires", and we would slide with them on the streets while other cars were driving. Ok, not on the main street…

> Now many years later, in US, with my son (~15 soon) I'm still spooked where he goes, we have the tracker (he's okay with it) and track each other in case something happens. I wish I had less available information...

You wish you had less available information? So turn the the tracker off?

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#437
post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Tokyo and just today on my way to coffee, saw several kindergarten-aged children crossing busy main roads to go to school. It does happen and happens nearly every day. This show likely does help prevent accidents (and yes 2 year olds aren't running errands every day) but the main point still stands, kids are living more autonomously in some ways in their every day life.

Japan as a haven for children is an exaggeration, at last in Tokyo. Sure, we can see young children take the train and walk to school - but it is not common to see that. In 12 years of living in Tokyo (Nakano-ku mostly), I didn't see that very often. It might be more common in smaller parts of the country or for very specific use cases. My two elder daughters went to kindergarten while I lived there. Their teacher wa…

I can't say what's an exaggeration, and I don't know I'd call any place a haven. Japan isn't perfect, and raising kids here has issues, sure.

It seems we've had completely different experiences. Through shibuya/yoyogi area, I pass a half dozen parks (kids are playing double dutch, soccer, pitching baseballs), 2 rec sports field and countless kids of all ages walking alone or with friends. Not to mention the preschool children being wheeled around in those huge laundry carts.

Often topics on here and reddit become "Which place is best?" but I don't think that way. I'm happy for you and your family's move to Calgary, and have no doubt it's better for your kids.

Compared to when I lived in the bay area (and then rural America before that), it's a stark contrast and I appreciate any city that where most people can feel safe walking around just about anywhere, whether that's Calgary or Tokyo.

I usually chime in with Tokyo talk not say "yay Japan is the best!" but rather "America deserve at least a little better than it's getting."

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're afraid of a parent choosing to walk with their kid down a public sidewalk? Get a grip.

Walking with the kids? Not a problem. But the thought of letting my kids (5 and 2.5) run errands by themselves (in a city like Berlin with its abundant number of homeless and mentally-ill people everywhere ) gave me goosebumps. "It's only one block away" and "most homeless people are harmless" would never be words of consolation in case of any calamity.

> "It's only one block away" and "most homeless people are harmless" would never be words of consolation in case of any calamity.

This is extremist thinking and frankly quite useless without considering the actual level of risk involved.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unless it’s a clearly serious felony like a murder or burglary, you aren’t really getting any information. Good news! The numbers reported in my citation are specifically about: Larceny/Theft, Burglary, Aggraveted Assault, Motor Vehicle Theft, Robbery, Rape, and Murder/Non-Negligent Manslaughter. Every single one of these has drastically decreased since the 90's (90's increased in crime since the 80's but current l…

I interpreted the comment you're replying to such that while the statistics for the serious crimes show a marked decline, parent are not only concerned about those crimes when letting their children walk alone to school and we have poor data about less serious crimes.

My comment was two parts. 1) that crime overall is decreasing. As far as I can tell this is true for every measurable metric. The only two I'm aware of that aren't are opioid use and sexual assault. Though the latter one isn't commonly believed to actually be increasing but just higher reporting. 2) that locality of crime is non-uniform. As a kid we knew which areas of town not to go to alone. Stay out of those parts of town and you'll be fine. In addition to this, most crime is not evenly distributed across the country and your suburban town isn't that dangerous. I'll strengthen my claim even more though, though this still isn't controversial. The richer your zipcode, the lower the crime rate. I think what people in this thread are more discussing is wealthy suburbanites picking their kids up in Teslas saying it is too dangerous to walk. No one is questioning the same sentiment for kids in Detroit or the bad parts of Chicago.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#440

Not in the US they can't. "officials placed two brothers into foster care after one, 11, was found playing basketball alone in his own yard." He'd gotten home early from school and his parents came 90 minutes later. He was in his own yard. The family lost their children to foster care. Ironically in foster care ACTUAL abuse rates are pretty darn high! "When Cindy and Fred arrived home they were arrested for child neg…

>due to the nature of my employment I am no longer employed This is an overlooked problem. Lack of employment protection. Nobody should be able to be fired for being arrested. That doesn't mean they committed a crime. It's not their fault they can't show up to work. There should be employment protection for that. In my country, even schoolteachers being investigated for sexual abuse aren't fired. They aren't allowed…

Irony: when cops get in trouble, they're usually suspended with pay. Due process for me, not for thee...
Post reply on HN