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A new wave of Linux applications

tuxphones.com

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Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#431
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

libadwaita and Kirigami are huge improvements for the desktop app ecosystem from what I've seen as a user. When I started to delve into desktop applications I quickly realized there's a couple hurdles I face: 1. QT was an ecosystem shock to me. I barely knew what to do to get started and got lost easily. 2. Do these applications work outside of Linux; more directly, do they have dynamic dependencies? From my experien…

libAdwaita is an attempt at providing a consistent framework for making GUI applications in Linux. People commenting on MacOS UX often forget that people creating Mac GUI applications aren't magically better at doing UX than Linux users. It's orders of magnitude easier to make ok looking GUI applications on a mac. Besides the fact that cocoa on mac has evolved over a decade(when linux people were busy constantly rein…

> Besides the fact that cocoa on mac has evolved over a decade

Arguably longer -- Cocoa itself goes back to NextStep in the mid-90s, and the Mac focus on UX goes back a decade before that.

But, I don't think it's just the books -- starting with the NextStep era, the tooling (Xcode and, before that, Interface Builder) was part of it, and the whole "follow the Human Interface Guidelines" ethos going back to the 68K Mac days genuinely created a culture of UI-obsessed nerds, not just inside Apple but in the whole third-party developer ecosystem, that I haven't seen anywhere else. While I genuinely don't think it's fair to say that open source developers don't care, they don't care at the same level that the Mac historically has, and you see that in all sorts of tiny little details that seem individually inconsequential -- like the "broken by design" folder selection you describe above -- but collectively add up.

Well, I'll back off the "haven't seen anywhere else" a bit; I met a couple folks working on Qt when I was at Nokia circa 2010, and they seemed to be that level of deeply involved opinionated UX nerd. (Which genuinely surprised me, I confess, because my impression of Qt before starting there was…maybe not the best?) But it's not something I saw carried through by third-party Qt developers outside Nokia/Trolltech.

One could make a good case that Apple's taken their eye off the ball in terms of UX over the last few years, making unforced form-over-function errors and biffing aesthetic details in ways one suspects they just wouldn't have a decade ago. Even so, there's a cohesion to the design that I don't generally feel on other platforms. I'm not convinced the "convergence" that the linked article described is the way to go to address this, either. (As others have pointed out, the apps Apple makes using their own "convergence-focused" toolkits like Catalyst have tended to be their wiggiest.)

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you are hung up on gnome of course. Plenty of alternatives that work out of the box in desktop space and flatapps aren't really needed really as one click with much less issues is possible many gui package managers. First option for anyone coming from other OS should be kde. Defaults are sane and customizations are easy to do. Frankly I really don't know why all distros provide gnome by default. There are nei…

> I really don't know why all distros provide gnome by default. As far as I know, GNOME is still the only Linux desktop environment that includes a screen reader, and possibly some other categories of accessibility tools. That's important for distributors who are legally required to provide accessibility options, e.g. because they're selling to the US federal government.

Aah. That would explain it.

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

libAdwaita is an attempt at providing a consistent framework for making GUI applications in Linux. People commenting on MacOS UX often forget that people creating Mac GUI applications aren't magically better at doing UX than Linux users. It's orders of magnitude easier to make ok looking GUI applications on a mac. Besides the fact that cocoa on mac has evolved over a decade(when linux people were busy constantly rein…

> Besides the fact that cocoa on mac has evolved over a decade(when linux people were busy constantly reinventing gtk themeing engines and display servers) I'll be the first one to concede that Wayland has been more or less a monumental waste of development effort, but can you point to the constant reinvention of themeing engines? Stylesheet modification has been a thing for decades now, there's very little that need…

> can you point to the constant reinvention of themeing engines?

https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotti...

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#434
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent links - thank you so much for the resources. I'm very excited to see what the Pinephone Pro brings as a platform to build towards in this regard. I'm already eyeing shipping some apps on Flathub! I hope the React Native => Flathub pipeline gets built out, similar to what Ubuntu is doing with Flutter => Snap. Exciting times!

I am very displeased by Snap being shoved down one's throat on Ubuntu. This has caused me to actually abandon Ubuntu completely. Linux mint and Debian now.

Seems like snaps were trying to solve a relevant problem (keeping software up-to-date quietly and automatically) but have a deeply flawed implementation. Almost daily I'll have Chromium suddenly completely break to the degree that it needs immediately restarting, losing all my open tabs/groups/auth. Working remotely with lots of web apps, this is a terrible experience for users!

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#435

Until there is as “simple” to use an app like Preview on the Mac, most of these new generation apps are garbage. I’ve just switched to Ubuntu on a workstation I have lying around. And man, is it hard to use for just normal everyday use. Yes, it has the basics covered, but like many others my job has a lot of simple image manipulation related stuff. Convert pdf to png. Assemble multiple images into a pdf. Quickly shar…

I love Ubuntu

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#436
post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you mean hovering to get the widget to appear, going to click it and having it auto-hide as your cursor is on the way, then hover again, repeat 2 more times, then finally be able to click and drag the widget.

https://xkcd.com/1172/

I know it's a joke, but I feel some people take this kind of thing seriously. Yes, improving stuff can break other stuff, but that doesn't mean we should never improve anything, it just means the devs (and PMs if applicable, probably not in the Linux world) need to have a feedback pipe coming from users to let them know what the consequences of the changes are.

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#437

Until there is as “simple” to use an app like Preview on the Mac, most of these new generation apps are garbage. I’ve just switched to Ubuntu on a workstation I have lying around. And man, is it hard to use for just normal everyday use. Yes, it has the basics covered, but like many others my job has a lot of simple image manipulation related stuff. Convert pdf to png. Assemble multiple images into a pdf. Quickly shar…

> Convert pdf to png. Assemble multiple images into a pdf not want to sound harsh, but imgemagick could do that 15 years ago. I use OpenOffice Draw nowadays, but despite the fact that PDFs have become a joke of a file format, Linux is the best to handle them by far, unless someone thinks that Acrobat is anywhere near to being good (or Preview for that matter)

I'll say more: Linux is certainly good, but sometimes it's even easier to use online tools

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#438
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I still dislike the gnome3 title bar with the icons. It's a key part of touch readiness. There's even a Windows-like theme for Gtk3+ that looks really close to the original, you might like it better than the default look.

Why do we have to suffer it on the desktop though? It’s so damn hard moving windows on gnome without setting something off accidentally. Especially with the shitty touchpad input devices. My mac laptops aren’t touch screens and they get this usable. The whole gnome desktop makes me want to stick forks in my eyes.

I love Gnome 3. For me it's the best desktop UI because it forces you to run everything full-screen and use search and keyboard shortcuts instead. (And everything is tailored for this workflow.)

Not even joking. I wish the Windows 95 computer interaction model would just die already.

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#439
post #25

I have to say I just don't like Gnome's design. The shift away from text and towards more and more abstract icons, the "don't theme my app movement", removing features I consider pretty essential like typeahead.... Maybe mobile is where their weird (to me) design choices will finally shine though. Also looking forward to what KDE can accomplish in this space.

I still dislike the gnome3 title bar with the icons. As you say, unlabelled mystery meat and hamburger menus. I'll admit, part of my dislike for the new title bars is probably irrationally rooted in just wanting things to stay like they were on windows 98 when I first became familiar with computers, forever, and never to diverge too much from that. But those unlabelled icons, they really do puzzle and frustrate me. O…

Yup... Client side decorations is why I don't use Gnome3.
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