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The latest campus cancellation is different

theatlantic.com

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Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#431

Post by epicureanideal »

civilized wrote: post #35
lotsofpulp wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a very simple solution. I struggle to see any material effect to MIT had they simply ignored these complainers.

Many such cases. That's why we need to look more closely at why the professional administrative class so eagerly does the wishes of activist mobs. Could it be that the activists and the administrators believe the same things?

I had the same thought. Maybe the mob is just the excuse the administrators can point to to do what they wanted to do already. Perhaps they both understand their role.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#432

Post by mensetmanusman »

umvi wrote: post #3

How do we neuter the power of Twitter mobs? Seems like they can bully and intimidate any organization from universities to corporations to GitHub projects to kowtow to their demands. Their demands are usually to fire, boycott, or boot people with opinions that run afoul of the mob. Not a healthy precedent to set. We will regret this later if we continue down this path.

Just shadow-ban any instigator, or give them an audience of 5 people. There are an unlimited number of options related to reach.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#433

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #429
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes . . . that was my point. There is not a legislatable way to compel Twitter to stop this behavior without violating Twitter's and protestors' free speech rights.

No. I'm saying nothing that twitter can do would infringe on freedom of speech. Freedom of speech means that the government cannot prevent people from saying something.

> No. I'm saying nothing that twitter can do would infringe on freedom of speech.

I understand that that's what you're saying. But you're responding to my comment implying that I'm disagreeing with that point of view, which I did not.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#434

Post by mensetmanusman »

whatshisface wrote: post #387
jwond wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They don't have any power, other than to annoy the institution. The only power here is the power that MIT has over the people they book to speak, and since MIT doesn't want to be annoyed, they canceled the speaker. The ability to get others to do what you want them to is absolutely a form of power.

I can't believe that Twitter culture has this much power but they're using it all on cancelling MIT speakers and not even trying to improve US policy.

It’s Brownian-cancel culture, a random walk of cancels just to see what happens…

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#435

Post by wrycoder »

devdas wrote: post #370
wrycoder wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you mean, “Cancel those who want to cancel the tolerant.” The post to which you responded said, “Only cancel the cancellors.”

Ah yes, I misread the parent as desiring to cancel the people demanding cancellation of the intolerant.

Karl Popper's The Open Society and Its Enemies discussed this problem.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#436

Post by AzzieElbab »

silisili wrote: post #264
ekianjo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do we neuter the power of Twitter mobs? Stop listening to them? EDIT: That's especially effective since the Twitter mobs keep moving targets every couple of weeks anyway. They don't have any patience.

Exactly. To quote Dave Chappelle, out of context to avoid further debate... "...they dragged me on Twitter. Well I don't give a fuck because Twitter isn't a real place."

Well, what if Netflix had comments and likes?

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#437

Post by epicureanideal »

ksec wrote: post #219
oefrha wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am also glad this is the top upvoted comment. This story is only two hours old. You have to wait, at least until the U.S. west coast wakes up and enters the ring. Stories like this often swing wildly. IIRC the top comment on the "GitHub, fuck your name change" article was reasonable from my point of view for a very long time, until eventually one telling us that using the word master somehow implies subconscious…

Yes I deliberately left that point out and try not to provoke some ( or even more ) negative reaction. My thought and observation is that there are silent majority on HN who usually dont get into these sort of discussions but are now vaguely aware of the consequences. Also worth pointing out today is Sunday so on HN it tends to be a quiet day. Just like twitter as if anger only works from Monday to Friday.

I wish there was a safe and convenient way for those of us who agree to meet and brainstorm how to improve the situation. But I’m not sure how to accomplish that.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#438

Post by smolder »

api wrote: post #148
umvi wrote: post #3

How do we neuter the power of Twitter mobs? Seems like they can bully and intimidate any organization from universities to corporations to GitHub projects to kowtow to their demands. Their demands are usually to fire, boycott, or boot people with opinions that run afoul of the mob. Not a healthy precedent to set. We will regret this later if we continue down this path.

People need to learn that the nuts (of any belief system) are always the loudest, and therefore give a distorted impression of actual consensus. Who are the loudest people on the left? Mobs and trolls who imagine grievances everywhere, which is sort of the leftist equivalent of conspiracy theory. Who are the loudest on the right? Qanon, Nazis, and theocrats / dominionists who think we should return to Old Testament l…

The nuts on either side aren't the loudest by their own virtue. They are amplified by their opponents. "This is the left," say the right wingers, pointing to the easiest-to-criticize, most ill-informed example of a leftist... and vice versa.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#439

Post by mhh__ »

WalterBright wrote: post #422
klyrs wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oldsters remember when this was a slower process, where people would write angry letters. They would undertake letter-writing campaigns, persuading others to take up the literary torch. They'd write to newspapers and magazines, where "free speech" was subject to the gatekeeping editor. Shorter screeds would appear in classified ads, again, to be censored if the editor didn't want to print what you had to say. It's fa…

> Writing quality and wit has definitely declined I concur. The skewering of Sarah Palin "I can see Russia from my house!" by SNL was brilliant. SNL's skewering of Trump just wasn't funny. Edit: Ok, if you disagree, note that everyone recognizes the SNL "I can see..." quote. Any memorable ones from SNL's Trump skits?

Alec Baldwin was pretty good, no?

I always found Trump-satire a little bit symbiotic. He thrives on non-boring politics, satire only normalizes his actions - i.e. mocking war hero's, regardless of what you make of the war they fought in, is just inhuman and satire only serves to form a grotesque hyperreality which we saw explode at the beginning of this year with all this nonsense over the election.

Re: The latest campus cancellation is different

#440

Post by Gigachad »

whatshisface wrote: post #387
jwond wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They don't have any power, other than to annoy the institution. The only power here is the power that MIT has over the people they book to speak, and since MIT doesn't want to be annoyed, they canceled the speaker. The ability to get others to do what you want them to is absolutely a form of power.

I can't believe that Twitter culture has this much power but they're using it all on cancelling MIT speakers and not even trying to improve US policy.

They don’t have any power over the government or the average US voter. They only have power over random corporate employees and universities.
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