Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

developer.apple.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

431–440 of 515 posts

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#431

Post by neuronic »

justusw wrote: post #383

This is great news. I've struggled so many times with websites that either don't offer a deletion option in the account/profile settings or where customer support never responds to requests. My hope is that deletion in this case really means deletion: The user data will not remain in their database to then eventually be accidentally leaked or hacked.

Legal liability is the only way to combat this bullshit. Severely harm these companies if they don't delete the data unless there is legal reason for time-limited retention (e.g. banks).

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#432

Post by xxs »

jacobr1 wrote: post #148
rapind wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it doesn’t though right? If there’s a database breach 10 years from now and I’m able to crack pki with like a quantum computer or something then I have that data… I think.

You don't need the breach, the DB is already public (in encrypted form). So yeah, all you need is either a currently unknown mathematic weakness in the encryption scheme, or bug in implementation, or as you suggest some future quantum or other technical advance that defeats the encryption.

AES is =not= weak vs quantum computers.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#433

Post by xxs »

IggleSniggle wrote: post #309
caf wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you stop anyone keeping a copy of everything that someone tries to tombstone, though?

I think this is an interesting hypothetical. If you never sync up, though, are you still part of the app developers aura of responsibility? Deletion of the data has been initialized per requirement, and will propagate through the system at the rate the system is able to propagate data. If someone changes their system to avoid the data being deleted, presumably that would then have to accept the liability / responsibi…

I just need versioned file system. or make copies, or well anythting. Te entire idea of deleting public information and all players are well-behaved, etc. is beyond futile.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#434

Post by arkh »

vineyardmike wrote: post #274
arkh wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is the requirement to push that deletion to all other SSB instances? Well if you follow the GDPR: yes. Article 17.2 > Where the controller has made the personal data public and is obliged pursuant to paragraph 1 to erase the personal data, the controller, taking account of available technology and the cost of implementation, shall take reasonable steps, including technical measures, to inform controllers which are…

> taking account of available technology and the cost of implementation, shall take reasonable steps, including technical measures, to inform controllers which are processing the personal data that the data subject has requested the erasure by such controllers of any links to, or copy or replication of, those personal data. This is just not possible for a lot of data like SSB. How would you do this if someone asked g…

Commits are not personal data in the GDPR sense.

> For the purposes of this Regulation:

> ‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical, physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of that natural person;

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#435

Post by wahern »

olau wrote: post #410
inopinatus wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

KYC/audit regs aside, it's also because the account belongs to the bank. The money is held in trust on your behalf, but the amounts are a liability on the institution's balance sheet. This is also why an increase in the balance of your deposit account is referred to as a credit; the statement is written from the bank's perspective, not yours. What you have is partial control of these funds, via instructions to your b…

I think this way of framing it is perhaps misleading. Yes, it's plainly true that the bank owns (or rents) the hardware, software, databases, etc. and that you're paying for a service through various fees. But IP is much less clear, and the view that "it's my database so it's my data" is not actually universally legal when the data concerns humans.

> But IP is much less clear, and the view that "it's my database so it's my data" is not actually universally legal when the data concerns humans.

The whole notion that someone could have a legal property interest in personal data collected by others is exceedingly modern. Even the most abstract scholarly work presaging the concept can only be traced back a few decades. Similarly, privacy as a concrete, distinct legal concept is only slightly older. (Notwithstanding the historical narrative gymnastics legal and social policy advocates often perform in their attempts to appeal to tradition.)

Suffice it to say, modern concepts regarding privacy and personal data aren't very useful in understanding banking practices and property regimes that can be traced centuries, if not millennia, in nearly identical forms.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#436

Post by 3np »

arkh wrote: post #45
vineyardmike wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you just delete the key and local data? Is the requirement to push that deletion to all other SSB instances? Seems like a case where in 2021 this rule is good, but blocks the creation of new business/product/tools that don't confirm with the 2020 way of thinking... which is good for apple.

> Is the requirement to push that deletion to all other SSB instances? Well if you follow the GDPR: yes. Article 17.2 > Where the controller has made the personal data public and is obliged pursuant to paragraph 1 to erase the personal data, the controller, taking account of available technology and the cost of implementation, shall take reasonable steps, including technical measures, to inform controllers which are…

Are you certain that an app developer for a client would qualify as a Data Controller here? As long as the relevant data never passes through their or other third-party servers and it's strictly local account setup interfacing with SSB I think they are not?

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#437

Post by nkssy »

gumby wrote: post #2

Wonder if this can be used to unsubscribe from The NY Times?

Maybe. You can't generally unsubscribe without the demons offering you temptations and otherwise stealing your time. Except that one case back in 2016, but that's just a legend.

There's probably a startup idea around unsubscribing from difficult companies but legislation and rules in general are likely more effective.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#438

Post by buran77 »

wahern wrote: post #435
olau wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this way of framing it is perhaps misleading. Yes, it's plainly true that the bank owns (or rents) the hardware, software, databases, etc. and that you're paying for a service through various fees. But IP is much less clear, and the view that "it's my database so it's my data" is not actually universally legal when the data concerns humans.

> But IP is much less clear, and the view that "it's my database so it's my data" is not actually universally legal when the data concerns humans. The whole notion that someone could have a legal property interest in personal data collected by others is exceedingly modern. Even the most abstract scholarly work presaging the concept can only be traced back a few decades. Similarly, privacy as a concrete, distinct lega…

> apps that allow for account creation must also allow users to initiate deletion of their account from within the app

This is a relatively straight forward request that maybe doesn't go as far as most people imagine here. Pressing "delete" doesn't instantly delete all user data and it's not expected to. In some cases there may be subsequent steps and some data may be kept for legal reasons*.

The point is very sensible, if I can request the creation of an account or subscription easily in the app, the reverse process should be just as straight forward. If an app can give a one button "create-subscribe-pay" experience then when it comes to deletion you shouldn't suddenly fill out paper forms, or send letters at specific times in the month. And that's if you can even find the info on how to do it in the first place.

Now you can trigger the deletion and know that they have to do something about it, at the very least get clear instructions on how to proceed.

*When it comes to banks, they are subject to laws and regulation that many other companies/services don't have to deal with. Which is why Apples makes this provision:

> We encourage you to review any laws that may require you to maintain certain types of data, and to make sure your app clearly explains what data your app collects, how it collects that data, all uses of that data, your data retention/deletion policies, and more as described in the guideline

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#439

Post by kall »

enos_feedler wrote: post #86
widowlark wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it buffers you from dark billing patterns of all companies except apple

I’d be interested to hear what dark billing patterns you are seeing rn with Apple?

When you start an app trial, and cancel right away, your trial stays active for it‘s duration. When you do the same with an Apple service like Music or Arcade, the service stops right away. This keeps you from pre cancelling a subscription while you trial in peace. I can’t imagine any technical reason for this and I‘m sure other developers would like to do the same thing.

Re: Apple requires account deletion within apps in AppStore starting January 31

#440

Post by [deleted] »

buran77 wrote: post #438
wahern wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But IP is much less clear, and the view that "it's my database so it's my data" is not actually universally legal when the data concerns humans. The whole notion that someone could have a legal property interest in personal data collected by others is exceedingly modern. Even the most abstract scholarly work presaging the concept can only be traced back a few decades. Similarly, privacy as a concrete, distinct lega…

> apps that allow for account creation must also allow users to initiate deletion of their account from within the app This is a relatively straight forward request that maybe doesn't go as far as most people imagine here. Pressing "delete" doesn't instantly delete all user data and it's not expected to. In some cases there may be subsequent steps and some data may be kept for legal reasons*. The point is very sensib…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN