Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional • Hacker News Board

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#431

Post by bluGill » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 12:50 PM UTC

burnished wrote: post #405

chrisseaton wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I already said > As long as the homeless people have been offered help and are not harming others So I don’t know why you’re giving examples where they are causing harm.

Because your example is just a distraction, no one cares about the people just minding their own business not causing any (visible) problems. Almost definitionally when we're talking about this we are talking about the people that are harming others, either directly or indirectly.

These harmless people who don't want help are still a statistic and so the country is going to look bad in some report so long as they don't forcefully force them to take help they don't need or want.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#432

Post by Jackpillar » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 5:46 PM UTC

ianhawes wrote: post #371

colinmhayes wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think arresting people solves problems. Just makes them shittier people when they get out a week later.

I'm fairly certain it is permitted in California, but police offers do have the power to write a citation that acts as a summons for the suspect to appear in court. No arrest, likely no jail time, just ~$20 in court costs plus whatever fine the judge imposes.

Ahh yes the common scenario of a mentally unstable homeless person showing up for a court appearance and having the ability to pay $20 in court costs and fines.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#433

Post by Jackpillar » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

swearwolf wrote: post #162

thatguy0900 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of a bubble do you have to be in to think someone peeing on cars is a non issue

Unfortunately that viewpoint is fairly common among contemporary West Coast liberals. A shocking amount of anti-social behavior is tolerated for this reason.

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Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#434

Post by klipklop » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 6:35 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #322

wahern wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If SF politics is really controlled by a wealthy cabal then why have they allowed the situation to deteriorate so much? Because they can't influence supervisor elections or school board elections as well as they can elections for mayor. The reason why San Francisco mayors are always re-elected is because they're very middle of the road in terms of politics and risk tolerance. Activist policies are usually the produ…

How are the monied elite able to select the mayor, yet unable to select the district attorney?

Go look into the even richer guy that funds the elections of SF's DA.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#435

Post by fmajid » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 12:21 AM UTC

robbrown451 wrote: post #141

fmajid wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

African-Americans ethnically cleansed from the city, first by Justin Herman’s “revitalization” of the Western Addition, or the shocking fact that black men in Bayview-Hunter’s Point have a life expectancy 20 years less than other SF males , and in fact lower than the US average for black males. Just because we have a black female mayor does not mean the real racism of SF is gone, just as electing Obama did not miracu…

Are you sure that's what the parent post meant? I don't agree that they have been "ethnically cleansed." I'm sure economics has forced some out. I've live in many parts of the country, and this is by far the least racist, and most racially diverse, place I've lived. Black men in the city would be expected to have a lower life span than black men nationwide, since urban black neighborhood are more prone to drugs and g…

I once took a Uber ride with an African-American gentleman as the driver. He had previously been a policeman in the SFPD, and his uncle owned a print shop in the Western Addition. He refused to sell his shop when Justin Herman's "renewal" project started. Shortly after, persons unknown vandalized and destroyed the print shop at night.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#436

Post by iammisc » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 5:26 AM UTC

cobbzilla wrote: post #367

iammisc wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first step against mental institutions was by Kennedy who's family had bad experiences with the mental health system. Blaming this solely on Reagan is misguided. Reagan just went with the flow.

With respect to the Kennedy’s bad experience, are you referring to Rosemary’s involuntary commitment and subsequent lobotomy? That was pretty awful, was there something more?

No that's it. JFK held a vendetta against mental institutions. He signed legislation to rid the country of them and create community mental health centers which was the first step in deinstitutionalization.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#437

Post by iammisc » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 5:27 AM UTC

akomtu wrote: post #408

iammisc wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except Angela alioto has run unsuccessfully for mayor multiple times. The family seeks political power but does not get it. This is just ungrounded conspiracy

Just like some board members like to get hands dirty and run things themselves. Musk is this type. But that's an exception.

Oh okay so basically your argument is 'my premise is certainly true and the counter example you provided is simply an exception that I didn't mention'

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#438

Post by pvarangot » Tue, Aug 31, 2021, 10:48 PM UTC

kortilla wrote: post #331

pvarangot wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't give up the higher income because you don't like the DA. If you don't read the news or hang out with people that are addicted to the news like /r/sanfrancisco you won't even notice. My way to deal with car crime is not owning a car, with the extra income I can afford to mostly use ridesharing for most of my needs and rent a car for the rest of them. Other than car crime, other forms of violent crime in SF…

> My way to deal with car crime is not owning a car, with the extra income I can afford to mostly use ridesharing for most of my needs and rent a car for the rest of them. That is mind boggling to Americans outside of SF though. That’s the equivalent of telling people not to “dress slutty” if they don’t want to be raped.

> That’s the equivalent of telling people not to “dress slutty” if they don’t want to be raped.

So crime against your car and your person are two completely different things so I don't think it's equivalent at all. Also I am not "less free" because I don't have a car, everything I would do in my life with one I do with more expensive services. If I needed a car I would get one and deal with car crime in other way, maybe moving to another city, maybe organizing a militia to defend cars. By not dressing however you want because of fear you are giving away something.

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#439

Post by Zanneth » Wed, Sep 01, 2021, 6:12 AM UTC

dillondoyle wrote: post #256

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both from reading/researching and talking with people who work directly with the homeless locally, this seems to be the crux. The really sad thing is just building the housing would be cheaper than what we're doing currently. But as soon as the city proposes it the NIMBYs come out like a hurricane refusing to allow it. Salt Lake City is an instructive example. They've made a huge impact on homelessness there with a h…

Totally! SLC looks increasingly awesome! In Denver we have a hidden agenda ballot measure coming up that would allow residents to sue the city if they didn't clear out homeless camps in 72 hours, while also putting into law a maximum cap of only four outdoor homeless spaces (parking lots) - while allowing amenities like porta-potties! Importantly the measure doesn't allocate money OR require these spaces. Just limits…

How would you feel as a working class citizen, when homeless drug addicts are given a place to live rent-free while you have to work hard every day just to stay afloat? How would you feel if you had children who lived in the same neighborhood as a drug motel? These problems are complex, and require solutions that are more thoughtful than "just give them a place to live and leave them alone."

Re: Why San Francisco’s city government is so dysfunctional

#440

Post by robbrown451 » Thu, Sep 02, 2021, 12:18 AM UTC

fmajid wrote: post #435

robbrown451 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure that's what the parent post meant? I don't agree that they have been "ethnically cleansed." I'm sure economics has forced some out. I've live in many parts of the country, and this is by far the least racist, and most racially diverse, place I've lived. Black men in the city would be expected to have a lower life span than black men nationwide, since urban black neighborhood are more prone to drugs and g…

I once took a Uber ride with an African-American gentleman as the driver. He had previously been a policeman in the SFPD, and his uncle owned a print shop in the Western Addition. He refused to sell his shop when Justin Herman's "renewal" project started. Shortly after, persons unknown vandalized and destroyed the print shop at night.

Ok, well that was over 50 years ago. A lot has changed since. Currently San Francisco is one of the most diverse and liberal large cities in the country. The black population is certainly lower than various surrounding cities such as Oakland, but that doesn't mean it's mostly white.