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1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

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Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#431

Post by aphexddb »

darknavi wrote: post #301
aphexddb wrote: post #297

Like many others this feels bad to me. I was previously forced to upgrade to 7 so the Chrome extension worked and as a result purchased (again!) separate Windows and Mac desktop licenses. In trying to navigate the site to find out how to buy a desktop only client I encountered the multiple dark patterns to make this nearly impossible. It is no wonder that “97% of people prefer the subscription” since standalone was b…

Please, if you haven't already, fill out this 1Password survey. They are considering self-hosted vaults but want more data on who/how it would be used: https://survey.1password.com/self-host/ Hopefully they will get the picture.

Thank you so much for posting this link! I had no idea there was an avenue for product features.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#432

Post by andrecarini »

Spivak wrote: post #333
andrecarini wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1Password’s 2FA OTP auto-fill is such a blessing. Until your vault is somehow compromised and your second factor is no longer distinct from the first one...

If my password vault is compromised it's game over anyway. There's enough access in there to remove the 2FA on all of my accounts even if you didn't have the codes. There's no way I'm giving up breakglass access and risking locking myself out of my accounts permanently or while I'm on road if I lose my phone. The point of using 2FA for me is to protect me against my password being compromised since it's a long_lived…

I believe there's barely no benefit to setting up a TOTP 2FA for those accounts if you're going to store the backup codes/token seed along with the password in the same vault.

> If my password vault is compromised it's game over anyway.

There are ways you could make a vault compromise not mean a complete/irreversible takeover, but that would either give up breakglass access as you say or add complexity and reduce availability.

> The point of using 2FA for me is to protect me against my password being compromised since it's a long_lived access key.

In which situations on your setup would a unique password compromise not imply there's also been a TOTP token/seed compromise?

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#433

Post by aclsid »

leetcrew wrote: post #96
maxharris wrote: post #7

1Password used to be native on the Mac, and now it's an Electron app. I'm not going to be using 1Password for this reason, and I encourage you to do the same. Subscription business models and non-native apps are hallmarks of rot by VCs. Dump them!

I think it's reasonable to complain about the loss of the native app when one of the key selling points (imo) is the pleasant UI. I don't really understand the almost-automatic hatred of subscriptions. if an app has ongoing development that you benefit from, it seems entirely fair to pay a subscription. the fair alternative is a one time payment for a lifetime license with few patches priced in. I would probably pref…

If every single utility and app start charging $3 or $5 per month then it becomes a problem. Software as a service is a good concept for something that is truly changing all the time, but I find it absurd that a Photoshop subscription or a huge IDE cost as much as these utilities thst used to be shareware in the past.

The old business model works but you have to keep innovating and diversify your product line. Microsoft was the best example with things like Encarta, Age of Empires and other tools like Project.

This new trend of doing these apps once, with far easier programming languages in a connected environment with plenty of docs, crash report data and things like stack overflow really makes it look that we are talking about cheap people trying to make a quick profit not unlike those free to play games.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#434

Post by Groxx »

xuki wrote: post #51

The writing was on the wall when they took VC money[1]. Anyone has a good guide to move to Bitwarden/Lastpass? [1] https://techcrunch.com/2019/11/14/fourteen-years-after-launc...

Strong "do not want" for lastpass. Run far, far away.

I switched to KeePassXC a while ago due to the increasing hostility over local stores. Looks like I was right on the money.

KeePass has served me pretty well - it's not as polished, but it works absolutely everywhere due to the numerous client apps on many OSes, and it syncs normally. Toss on something like Dropsync for mobile, and it's pretty streamlined: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ttxapps.dr...

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#435

Post by Groxx »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #413
pianoben wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have, as far as I can tell. Last month I tried to set up a new 1PW installation and exhaustively searched through the app menus - no sign of standalone vault support anywhere. It's possible that it was hidden because I had previously signed in to my work's 1PW account, maybe, or that it's hidden too well for me to find. I don't know, and would be happy to learn either way.

I just tried it on Android (after resetting the app), and it's still an option to use a local vault at first setup.

iirc (it has been a while since I used it), this fits with what I saw. You could do it if you set it up as a local vault at the very beginning, and add a web account on top of it, but if you started with a web account it was not an option at all.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#436

Post by PragmaticPulp »

kup0 wrote: post #343

I am a 1PW subscription user and am happy with the product (however, seeing they are moving to Electron means that is very subject to change...) but Saying that "customers voted with their wallet" and chose subscriptions is disingenous Ever since they've had subscriptions they've made the standalone license page extremely difficult to find on their site. They really didn't give regular users a "choice"- they dark-pat…

> Saying that "customers voted with their wallet" and chose subscriptions is disingenous

Honestly, I wouldn't mind paying a reasonable price for the 1Password service if it wasn't a step down in value from what I had before.

I have a slightly older version of 1Password and it works fine for my purposes. I've been holding off on the subscription transition because I would derive zero value from switching to subscription but I'd gain a monthly payment I didn't have before.

But the thing that irks me is the PR speak that is trying to spin the subscription change as something we, the customer voted for, when they've gone out of their way to force everyone into subscriptions and hide the standalone version. I know the standalone version of 1Password 7 exists, but I tried to find the price yesterday and gave up after a few minutes of poking around.

"We didn't choose this, you chose this!" is so distastefully dishonest that I have zero desire to engage with this company any more. Once my standalone license of 1Password 6 stops working, I'm upgrading to a competing product.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#437

Post by thewebcount »

MajesticHobo2 wrote: post #407
xg15 wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So no matter if it's in Dropbox, 1Password's servers, or your own hard drive, if anyone obtains a copy of the password file they still have to crack it before they gain access to anything. Except that they control the client that I'm entering the master password into. So either the password is sent to their servers anyway or a malicious actor could simply update the client to do so.

This is true of any password manager.

But you can take your device off the network when running the password manager to ensure it isn't able to do that, for example. (Or more realistically, you can watch with something like Little Snitch or WireShark to ensure it isn't happening.) That's something you can't do when the password manager requires the network to do its main function.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#438

Post by stereoradonc »

ValentineC wrote: post #168
FreezerburnV wrote: post #50

I guess I’m the outlier in being very happy with 1Password and fine with paying for the subscription service. Not only is 1Password the best password manager I’ve used, but it makes it seamless to share stuff with my wife. I don’t care if 8 is an Electron app either, considering I usually interact with it via the browser anyway with their extension. (Also I know that the majority of what they wrote for it is Rust and…

I'm perfectly happy with paying a subscription, and think $4.99/month for 5 people is affordable. What I'm not happy with is the possibility of password access being limited or sync breaking if 1Password servers go down. At least with Dropbox (iCloud, wifi) sync, I have full control over the local vault file. Ultimately, it might be mostly about ownership and choice for me.

Affordability is a mirage- $5 per month and $60 per year wont break a bank but its a huge amount to justify other geographies where money transactions are NOT in $$

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#439

Post by PragmaticPulp »

trimbo wrote: post #195
maxharris wrote: post #7

1Password used to be native on the Mac, and now it's an Electron app. I'm not going to be using 1Password for this reason, and I encourage you to do the same. Subscription business models and non-native apps are hallmarks of rot by VCs. Dump them!

When I was 18, I wrote some shareware and asked for $10 from those who used and liked the program. Lots of nice people from all over the planet sent in some money, and sometimes with letters. Most often it was a thank you note. Sometimes people requested more features in return for paying the requested amount. And occasionally they'd tack on whatever extra they thought those features were worth to them. (That amount…

> So I learned early on that people unreasonably expect support for no additional cost. Or they believe the amount they paid is for support in the future, not work done in the past.

If I buy a piece of software, it's not unreasonable to expect it to work for some period of time after the purchase. This is especially true on the Windows side, where Microsoft has gone to great lengths to keep old APIs around and support most (but not all) old software within reason. I have engineering software programs that are a decade old that still run fine on my Windows 10 machine.

macOS has been less shy about deprecating old APIs and forcing software updates. I probably spend $500-1000 every year just upgrading a certain few software packages that charge for a new version every time a new macOS comes out, and I hate it. I don't mind paying for new versions of software, but it's becoming saddening to watch all of my macOS software rapidly decay away with each macOS upgrade unless I buy the newest version.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#440

Post by mirkules »

beefjerkins wrote: post #428
mirkules wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Subscription models make sense for something that needs to stay evergreen. Why does a password manager need a subscription? My password should never touch a 3rd party’s server, I don’t need extra features, I don’t need a login, I don’t need long-term or even short-term support. What ongoing development does a password manager have? Is it that buggy from the get-go to need constant updates?

Sure, a local-only password manager doesn't need a subscription, and solutions such as KeePassXC demonstrate this quite well (as a user of it myself!) However, in the case of 1Password it's not just about being a password manager; it's also about syncing passwords between devices, staying on top of (sometimes rapidly!) changing standards between devices and browser extensions, and being aware of the evolving landscap…

Maybe I’m just too old-school, thinking that when paying for software it’s yours.

Way too often, automatic upgrades silently break my existing software, take away functionality or introduce new bugs.

Anyway thanks for showing me KeePassXC, looks like something I’ll be very interested in

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