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An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

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431–440 of 451 posts

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean for pete sake is Microsoft or Google even trying to compete? Forget the evil monopolies. Consider GNU/Linux phones, Librem 5 and Pinehone. They may not be ready for an average user, but the HN audience can take advantage of them and help their develoment.

If open phones actually do get market traction (and I'm hoping they do), then I'm pretty sure that Apple/Google/etc will attempt to get laws passed banning them. There are all sort of avenues that could be taken for such laws unfortunately. :/

Which is why supporting Electronic Frontier Foundation is important.

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am currently planning the migration away from the Apple ecosystem Me too. I told my wife today that I'll be looking at a feature phone as I'm not sure I can be bothered with jumping through all the hoops required to de-Google an Android phone. I remember a time before mobile phones, I was just fine without one - smartphones aren't that good, just convenient.

Pixel phone running GrapheneOS, you'd have to jump through hoops to get google back on the thing.

I’ll give it a look, thanks.

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#433
post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be hard to understand, but iOS is a blackbox. Based on what they add and say, we still don't know what exactly is happening. All we have is trust. We can speculate that with "what ifs", but same "if" is applying already. Once we take other big platforms on account, Apple is actually trying to note privacy. Other platforms just scan everything you put in cloud, but Apple tries to limit the information what th…

IIRC, Apple was already scanning iCloud server-side for CSAM [0] so I'm not sure if that excuse holds. [0] https://www.macobserver.com/analysis/apple-scans-uploaded-co...

They did not scan everything. Only suspected ones, this expands scope to everyone by default. But this is still improvement. We might see followup as added E2EE services which was not possible before.

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it leads to widespread civil rights abuses, where are they? This is disingenuous, since up to this point these databases weren't used in systems residing on end user devices, scanning their local files. The disadvantages aren't merely "theoretical"; they just haven't materialized yet since the future does not yet exist. To ignore these obvious faults by hand-waving them as theoretical is to blatantly ignore vali…

The distinction between scanning locally before upload, and on server after upload, is an implementation detail. The only reason Apple have done this is to allow them to implement E2EE for iCloud without hosting CSAM. All arguments relating to anything other than this are arguing against something that doesn't exist. I don't dispute that fictional proposals in the imaginations of HNers might pose a grave (fictional)…

I don't really understand what you mean when you say it is an "implementation detail". It is definitely a detail of the implementation, but it is an extremely important detail that makes all of the difference.

Given that it is just an implementation detail, I guess they can simply change it and then the rest of us will be at peace?

I think it would do you well to see this quote:

> ”Any proposal must be viewed as follows. Do not pay overly much attention to the benefits that might be delivered were the law in question to be properly enforced, rather one needs to consider the harm done by the improper enforcement of this particular piece of legislation, whatever it might be.”

> -Lyndon B. Johnson

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#436
post #418
post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, 5G. The bag of promises telco execs have dangled in front of large customers for nearly a decade that will deliver on all their needs. If they could just figure out how to deliver on it ;-)

>If they could just figure out how to deliver on it Install an antenna? You know that before 5G there was a 4,3,2,1,0.5 G?

Well, no.

Most of the attraction of 5G isn't really anything you as a consumer will ever see. Like more advanced spectrum management and more advanced core network components that allow what you can think of as "virtualization with quality of service guarantees" for multiple tenants. On top of that 5G also makes use of higher frequency spectrum which has implications both for use and the design of mobile networks.

To really make life interesting, 5G also aims to enable private 5G RANs. For instance industry in some countries are heavily involved in building their own 5G networks for their own use in geographically limited areas (made possible by allocating higher frequency spectrum for these uses).

The customers that 5G targets isn't so much the consumer as government and industry. For instance by removing the need for building dedicated infrastructure for emergency, defense, law-enforcement, manufacturing etc. which would represent cost savings.

Part of the challenge of 5G is that regulatory authorities don't understand how 5G differs from what they are used to, so many places in the world (with eager lobbying from the telco industry) one will try to keep new players out of the market. (Of course, they might understand, but there may be "motivating factors" to cling to the status quo where spectrum is mostly allocated in large chunks at significant cost and with bureaucracy that ensures smaller players are kept out)

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't deny the system has some benefits, they just aren't benefits I will gladly give up my own freedom for nor the freedom of my fellow citizens. I don't want to do away with anything; I just want "you" out of my devices, where "you" don't belong anyway and where you haven't been up to this point. (Well, you still aren't there because I don't use an iPhone, but hopefully the point is clear.) Also note that I'm not…

Sorry, to clarify, you do in fact support Apple running the exact same scans on their server side CPUs? A situation that has the exact same effects on society...? Your only concern then, is with a future authoritarian policy of your own imagination?

Yes, but

> A situation that has the exact same effects on society...?

This is patently false.

You do come off as arguing in bad faith, resorting to debasing any concerns of policy misuse as simply a product of the imagination of the person raising the concern. As if authoritarian policies and erosion of freedom/privacy are something completely baseless, impossible and unheard of, instead of happening all the time.

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#438
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can’t speak for everybody of course, but I am currently planning the migration away from the Apple ecosystem and I’m heavily invested (watch, phone, MacBook, Mac Pro, Apple TV). I’ve also been recommending to friends and family to move to droids with microG. The largest concern I have for them is that they’re stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea. Most people aren’t going to run a droid without google, or Lin…

> I am currently planning the migration away from the Apple ecosystem Me too. I told my wife today that I'll be looking at a feature phone as I'm not sure I can be bothered with jumping through all the hoops required to de-Google an Android phone. I remember a time before mobile phones, I was just fine without one - smartphones aren't that good, just convenient.

Same. I’m strongly considering donating to CalyxOS as they are a nonprofit.

The biggest reason I dumped Android years ago (the last Android phone I had was a galaxy nexus or nexus one) was because of the lengthy process to reflash a phone with something like aosp or (at the time) cyanogen. Each model was different. Ultimately I decided I didn’t have time for that and battery life was atrocious. Like I had batteries stashed all over the place.

I figure something like CalyxOS seems to have a good feedback and reputation here. And a donation helps them and allows me to bypass hours of tinkering on xd forums.

Ultimately I think I’m locked in iOS for now as my phone is dual sim and the esim is a company provided line. So I will either have to revert to carrying two devices again or just maintain the calyx/pixel as my bailout device in case my job suddenly my vanishes (like the current device I have in safe keeping)

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#439
post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, Apple was already scanning iCloud server-side for CSAM [0] so I'm not sure if that excuse holds. [0] https://www.macobserver.com/analysis/apple-scans-uploaded-co...

They did not scan everything. Only suspected ones, this expands scope to everyone by default. But this is still improvement. We might see followup as added E2EE services which was not possible before.

So are they only scanning things you specifically upload to iCloud, aka if you disable iCloud and photo syncing you are fine.

Or does that include ancillary data like images in iMessage chats (even if you have iCloud data basically shut off)

I read the scans were done on device but prior to upload. Just unclear what that really means to me.

Re: An open letter against Apple's new privacy-invasive client-side content scanning

#440
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a non-insignificant amount of people in tech take this seriously We're all here to make ourselves feel good saying we Took A Stand. In reality, four weeks from now, do you think anybody will still be talking about it? I made this same mistake. I was pretty convinced that people were taking Copilot seriously, and that there was possibly going to be ramifications for Microsoft. I wasn't particularly looking forward t…

I completed my move to the Pinephone and formatted my iPhone over this. I'm probably not alone.

Indeed. The PinePhone is my current plan for ditching my iPhone. I had planned to upgrade to the new 13 this fall, so thank goodness this happened now. Apple just saved me a lot of money!
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