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Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

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Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#431

Post by bagacrap »

bwb wrote: post #11

I always am amazed by how many people value their nation over larger groups of human beings who are just like them... isn't it time to up our game as humans and start thinking bigger? Why not abolish nations within the EU and just become the EU with different provinces? Nationalism is an ancient mentality, get rid of it and start moving into larger groups who can do more. I keep reading about the North American Allia…

On the contrary I think people would be happier in the US if it did split into multiple nations.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#432

Post by pjc50 »

bobthechef wrote: post #319
pjc50 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's almost seven million displaced Syrians. The real failure is to not have dealt with the Syrian crisis, and now the demand to kick out the refugees, no matter how impractical this is or how lethal it would be to them, is rising.

> The real failure is to not have dealt with the Syrian crisis Most migrants weren't Syrians, btw. But more importantly, I wish to remind you that when this mass migration was inflicted on Europe, the Left was very much in favor of this shitshow. There was no "dealing with the Syrian crisis" then (whatever anyone means by that). Nor was there any acknowledgement that the majority of migrants weren't fleeing Syrians.…

> acknowledgement that the majority of migrants weren't fleeing Syrians

Which migrants? Where are they from in Hungary, then?

> should suggest that the mass migration was weaponized

By whom? For what purpose?

> the Left was very much in favor of this shitshow

The left (such as this can be described as a homogenous bloc!) was not in favour of the collapse of Syria, although they generally were against just repeating the mistakes of Iraq there. Without the attack on Iraq the collapse of Syria might not have happened, after all - it released a huge amount of arms stockpiles into the region which were taken up by ISIS.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#433

Post by majgr »

ipatec wrote: post #324
tobltobs wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what are you trying to say? Hungary has a trade surplus against Germany.

where are the profits going? if a German company opens a factory in Hungary where it produces let's sau Automotive parts of course Hungary develops a trade surplus. they sell automotive parts to Germany. however the profits of the German HU subsidiary will all go back to Germany. that trade surplus means nothing.

It means that GDP per capita rises, isn’t it good?

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#434

Post by jonp888 »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #351
thinkindie wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and just to clarify - joining the EU is an exercise of free will. Countries are met with some conditions and it's their decision to join or not. This is valid for both Hungary and Poland. If they don't want to be part of EU any longer I think Brexit showed the way, and all the consequences of that.

I seem to recall the UK Brexit and that freewill argument was almost immediately challenged by calls for next rounds of referenda ( presumably until the right decision is reached by the population ). As always, it is democracy and free will as long as it is exercised in a way the conforms to rather specific view of what the outcome should be.

I don't understand your argument. Britain voted to leave, and they left.

People can 'call' for whatever they like. In this case the demand was related to the refererendum being on a nebulous idea without any clear idea on how to implement it. No-one would ever seriously suggest having a referendum on a Trade deal or Treaty before the negotiations had even started. The idea of having a referendum on the final deal was hardly a crazy one.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#435

Post by porkbrain »

krzyk wrote: post #220
f6v wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of implies people can’t think for themselves. By this logic, the liberal countries are only liberal because the media tells the people to be liberal. Maybe you’re right.

Nope, because there are different media available, and one can watch/listen/read those. In Orban like states you loose that free access to all media and you are forced into the state one. For those that are not aware countries that were under former Soviet boots all have a state television, which is the default source of information for older people (they are used to it), whichever party wins the elections sets up th…

I'd like to stress the "_may happen_" in the parent's post. I'd argue that in Czech Republic the state TV (ČT) works well so far. One cannot filter out out biases from journalism completely, but in general the quality of production is a good indicator to me that they do have processes in place which try to address some biases. In my eyes on average ČT wins compared to the private TV stations in the country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_Television#Management

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#436

Post by ashtonkem »

joelbluminator wrote: post #281
ashtonkem wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes he is a despot, but the opposition is worse. This is the exact mental process that has brought most dictators into power.

It's either a true statement in the general case of that region of the middle east or it isn't. I'm not sure what you're trying to argue.

1) It’s a false dichotomy. There are more paths forward other than “tolerate ’s misbehavior” and “let control the region”. The fact that this line is used by those who want more power should make anyone wary.

2) Tolerating the gross misbehavior of one state or leader because you perceive them as a bulwark against other worse leaders is an extremely foolish course. Not only does it expose ones ideals as being hollow and situational, but it often creates new problems that must be contained later.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#437

Post by deregulateMed »

t-c-h wrote: post #390
deregulateMed wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy shit, there's literally a dozen of Apple products exploited. It's not a single "Apple music exploit", it's dozens of separate services. Music, messenger, safari, iOS, etc... I never want to hear Apple cares about security again. I could forgive 1 mistake, but this seems like negligence. (Don't put me down as a defender of MS or Android, but at least they don't use "Security" in their marketing)

If you would have actually read the report, you would have known the attacks are not specifically device or mobile OS bound. They simply say that iOS leaves behind more useable traces. From paragraph 10: Much of the targeting outlined in this report involves Pegasus attacks targeting iOS devices. It is important to note that this does not necessarily reflect the relative security of iOS devices compared to Android de…

The article doesn't mention android again.

And I'm not even defending android, I'm attacking Apples unethical marketing practices of claiming security and privacy, but failing.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#438

Post by deregulateMed »

ohashi wrote: post #401
deregulateMed wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy shit, there's literally a dozen of Apple products exploited. It's not a single "Apple music exploit", it's dozens of separate services. Music, messenger, safari, iOS, etc... I never want to hear Apple cares about security again. I could forgive 1 mistake, but this seems like negligence. (Don't put me down as a defender of MS or Android, but at least they don't use "Security" in their marketing)

That seems dramatic. It's a billion dollar ex-spy run company catering towards governments with seemingly no ethics. No offense to Apple but this is near state level actor as a threat and with enough motivation ($$$$$$$$) they will find ways to exploit Apple's software no matter what.

Sure, but their marketing still claims security.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#439

Post by ashtonkem »

roenxi wrote: post #105
Hokusai wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EU is completely helpless against rouge states There is a point where politics depend on good intent. It does not matter if it is the EU, USA or China. If there is a part of the population that is radicalized and hate rhetoric is used that will destabilize any society. The main defense against this situation is that it does not work to improve citizens lives. It only benefits a small part of society and it will mak…

> If there is a part of the population that is radicalized and hate rhetoric is used that will destabilize any society. I'm going to point at this as an example of a very traditional, very political example unproductive thinking. One of the lessons people refuse to see in politics is that the people who vote for things they don't like might, potentially, be upset about something. There is a lack of reflection on how…

If you know nothing about Hungary, why are you so confident GP is wrong?

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#440

Post by nix23 »

johnnycerberus wrote: post #419
nix23 wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Hopefully nationalism crushes this perverse anti Western virus Being totally against the EU, i think full on nationalism is wrong too. We life on one big spaceship and with that, we should have one organizing (not governing entity) like the UN was once meant to be.

EU is built on the European thought at least, it is the child of Christianity, strongly influenced by Greco-Roman world sprinkled with some Germanic austerity. No wonder why countries with Muslim minorities cannot join the Union. UN would never work because what binds Europe together is exactly this shared Christian past starting from the division of Catholic and Orthodox Church and ending with Protestant thought. Ev…

>No wonder why countries with Muslim minorities cannot join the Union.

Germany has a Muslim minority. And Cyprus has 25%. I don't think Religion is a point here at all, culture definitely is.

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