Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing? • Hacker News Board

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#431

Post by okareaman » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 8:50 AM UTC

j_wtf_all_taken wrote: post #399

okareaman wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't say if my code is still in use, but it had an impact on a lot of people for awhile

Every person that ever committed a patch to the Linux Kernel probably has more impact. Not because if the code itself but Linux is just so much more important than Apple, Facebook and Google altogether.

> What community? The one where you have to be rich to be a part of?

Looks like HN hides the reply if we go back and forth too quickly so I'll just reply here to say quickly that these companies have friction with local communities so they try to be nice. I've been to Facebook event like Siesta day. They try to be nice but it doesn't always help with the locals.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#432

Post by StreamBright » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 8:51 AM UTC

kpmah wrote: post #248

StreamBright wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who never experienced state run healthcare it sounds like an amazing idea. It is free! It is for all! Amazing. I usually ask my friends from the US how much do they like the service at DMV. Usually they hate it. So you want your healthcare to be run as DMV? Healthcare is great when you have a choice. The private healthcare industry is booming in Easter Europe now because there are people who can afford it.…

The NHS is one of the most efficient health systems in the world.

And? What is your point?

The Dutch is also one of the best. Singapore too. You can bring examples pro contra for both types.

I think the regulation that makes a healthcare good or bad, not that it is private or public. Many public healthcares are in Eastern Europe are bad. Some private healthcares are also bad. I still think that a combination of private and public offering is probably the best with regulation being the QA.

My previous comment was to point out that public healthcares can be bad, if it was not clear. Many of my friends do not want to have any nuanced discussion just, public good, private bad.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_the_Netherlands

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#433

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 8:51 AM UTC

j_wtf_all_taken wrote: post #411

jmkerr wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "(Europe has over 100 mobile operators, compared with a handful in America or China.) These lack the economies of scale and opportunities to grow quickly enjoyed by firms plying the American or Chinese markets." This is such a bad example, I count 6 European carriers with more subscribers than AT&T. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mobile_network_operato... > "These internal barriers mean Europe has many small…

Also, don't Americans complain all the f**ing time how bad their broadband internet is?

German and Austrian broadband is equally worse.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#434

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 8:53 AM UTC

j_wtf_all_taken wrote: post #361

kortilla wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“No big companies” is a fine policy for things that don’t require a lot of money to innovate on. A small business will never be capable of producing anything like the iPhone for example. Pushing the envelope on tech is very expensive and this is where Europe’s current model doesn’t work. If it’s just companies reselling existing things or incremental tech (e.g. grocers, telecoms, utilities, airlines, etc), then small…

Yeah but doesn't Apple rely on European companies like Bosch for sensors and stuff? So, no iPhone without those crappy uninnovative European companies. Oh and Linux and the WWW were developed in Europe, if I remember correctly?

Yes, but how is Europe monetizing those things? Just because something was invented here is irrelevant if people can't use it to pay rent or create new well paying jobs.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#435

Post by Dudeman112 » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 8:53 AM UTC

238475235243 wrote: post #43

I've lived in a few different parts of the EU, and couldn't imagine a worse idea than starting a company there (which I did, once). Starting is hard enough without the general negative attitudes, the government insanities, the insane taxes, the low work ethic, the 8 weeks of vacation every month (I exaggerate, slightly). And I was in one of the two best EU countries, God only knows how bad it is in Spain or Italy or…

I do not want the EU to become like the US.

All those things make for a stronger top 0.1% at the detriment of the rest of society.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#436

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 8:55 AM UTC

j_wtf_all_taken wrote: post #421

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Europe did a better job in distributing wealth more equally This assumes ex ante a similar quantity of wealth. Europe’s GDP per capita is lower than America’s. Where it’s higher, the growth is slower. The more-even distribution comes at the expense of quality of life or economic power. (Though not for Europe’s well-entrenched multi-generational and often legally-entitled wealthy.) To be clear, I don’t believe in mo…

> The more-even distribution thus comes at the expense of quality of life. What are you talking about? We have fairer elections, better infrastructure, more social security, everyone's got health insurance, we're not getting shot in school, and also we're not on the way to be ruled by a fascist so ... how exactly are you measuring the quality of life?

>we're not getting shot in school, and also we're not on the way to be ruled by a fascist

I downvoted you since you're going massively off-topic with your generalizations about the US that have no place on HN.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#437

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 8:56 AM UTC

j_wtf_all_taken wrote: post #406

Hermel wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But then it quickly mention, without any further analysis, that both their GDP actually grew at a similar pace. So the entire EU economy grew at the same speed than the US one but not its 500 bigger companies. So all else being equals it means that the smaller US companies grew more slowly and that this article is simply mesuring increasing corporate inequalities (if there is such a thing). No. About half of the Eu…

Isn't it nice that a large part of the European economy consists of stuff helping people (the "state activities" you mention) vs. the large part of the US economy that consists of hurting people?

US creating top paying tech jobs for the working class and not taxing them to death so they can grow into a flourishing middles class is also helping people.

>large part of the US economy that consists of hurting people

Source? If you're talking about the defense sector then you should also know that the UK and France were several years in a row number 2 and 3 worldwide in arms sales, including to the Saudi regime.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#438

Post by joelbluminator » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 8:57 AM UTC

tluyben2 wrote: post #287

andruby wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> societies that promote innovation have higher quality of life Does the US have a higher quality of life than Germany, France or the Netherlands? I agree that innovation is important and societies should promote it, but -imho- not at the cost of consumer & employee protection.

I would like to see US answers to this but in the US your quality of life is fantastic if you are rich and then it degrades fast: in NL it is good to great for all. So I can pick bleeding hard work in a lottery to maybe be someone or I can do whatever I like and have most of those same perks. Where is the choice here?

> in the US your quality of life is fantastic if you are rich

I would argue almost everywhere in the world quality of life is fantastic if you are rich. What is the huge difference between living in a gated community in California to doing it in Thailand?

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#439

Post by Nimitz14 » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 8:57 AM UTC

kpmah wrote: post #248

StreamBright wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who never experienced state run healthcare it sounds like an amazing idea. It is free! It is for all! Amazing. I usually ask my friends from the US how much do they like the service at DMV. Usually they hate it. So you want your healthcare to be run as DMV? Healthcare is great when you have a choice. The private healthcare industry is booming in Easter Europe now because there are people who can afford it.…

The NHS is one of the most efficient health systems in the world.

The NHS is probably the worst health care system in the developed world.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#440

Post by streamofdigits » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 8:58 AM UTC

It is absurd to compare "Europe" with the US or China and I suppose in the future also India. Europe is a collection of nation states where a nationalist landmine always awaits to blow on our faces (See Brexit which deprived the European Union of one of its main economic powerhouses). Further, there are deep rooted linguistic barriers (See French attitude towards use of English as lingua franca - which diminishes the role of yet another powerhouse). Next, steps towards economic integration (like the introduction of the Euro) are sketchy. The financial system in Europe is in a half-baked (yet frozen) state of disrepair as there is no appetite to integrate further. It will unravel completely if a really serious economic crisis comes about. In any case it prevents the kind of rapid scaling that is enjoyed by entrepreneurs/private sector business activity in the US and China.

Despite all those handicaps, European societies and economies are doing reasonably well. No Trumpista degeneration here, no oriental authoritarianism and oppression. A sane approach toward digital privacy and sovereignty (which any US citizen should really be thankful for as there is nobody else to carry the torch). Similarly ahead of the curve on environmental sustainability. Innovation is definitely happening (a rich and diverse cultural heritage and diversity almost guarantees that). Just a tiny example: several countries have digital banking systems significantly ahead of the US.

What Europe must work out is how to organize its constituents so that they act more coherently without losing their identity. Any comparison and/or imitation of the aberrant mono-cultures of the East and the West is a waste of time.