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Microsoft Irish subsidiary paid zero corporate tax on £220bn profit last year

theguardian.com

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Re: Microsoft Irish subsidiary paid zero corporate tax on £220bn profit last year

#431

Post by samspenc »

G3rn0ti wrote: post #421
chipsambos wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what exactly is left for a corporate tax to collect? £220bn in profit last year. It's in the headline.

> £220bn As others pointed out — this number is nonsense. See for example https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27380998 .

Yeah that was my first thought on seeing the title. MSFT as a whole made a grand total of $143 billion (€118 billion) revenue in 2020 (across the globe), and $44.3 billion (€36.5 billion) profit during this time.

I'm not sure how they got from a €36.5 billion profit for the year (which would be the maximal taxable amount) to a €220 billion number, something 6x higher.

Re: Microsoft Irish subsidiary paid zero corporate tax on £220bn profit last year

#432

Post by samspenc »

arczyx wrote: post #192
sbennettmcleish wrote: post #7

220bn profit? Really? Surely they mean "revenue"

I think that 220bn is the profit of that particular Irish subsidiary. They got their revenue from all other Microsoft's subsidiaries around the world and only need very little expense ("directors", etc). Hence, profit.

Still that makes no sense as others have pointed out ... MSFT as a whole made $143 billion in revenue and $40 billion in profit for 2020, so not sure where the €220 billion number is coming from.

Re: Microsoft Irish subsidiary paid zero corporate tax on £220bn profit last year

#433

Post by callamdelaney »

dariosalvi78 wrote: post #158
um_ya wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Pay your fair share". I cringe every time I hear this from people. Rich people pay WAY more than what they get back from the gov.

well, the idea is that the richer you are the more you contribute to society.

Wouldn’t we achieve the same with a flat tax rate?

Re: Microsoft Irish subsidiary paid zero corporate tax on £220bn profit last year

#434

Post by anoncake »

EMM_386 wrote: post #164

What is the solution to this? I've wracked my brain and can't come up with anything. Companies will just continue to flee to whatever country is now offering 0%. Christmas Island has a new 0% corporate tax policy? Let's go buy a mailbox there and move our "headquarters". The old-school thinking is that low corporate tax policies encourage business, creating jobs in the process and boosting that country's economy. In…

A country could apply the global minimum tax on the worldwide profits of a company operating within it but recognize taxes already paid to other countries. So a country with a 0% corporate tax is just giving money to other countries.

Re: Microsoft Irish subsidiary paid zero corporate tax on £220bn profit last year

#435

Post by dragonwriter »

um_ya wrote: post #148
callamdelaney wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, it's great that it's great society. Sucks pretty hard for him though.

"Pay your fair share". I cringe every time I hear this from people. Rich people pay WAY more than what they get back from the gov.

> Rich people pay WAY more than what they get back from the gov.

Only if you ignore the role of the government in defining and enforcing (violently, where necessary) property rights, which is what allows “rich people” —particularly rich through various forms of intangible, indirect, and directly-physical-but-beyond-immediate-personal-supervision property — to, as such, even exist.

Re: Microsoft Irish subsidiary paid zero corporate tax on £220bn profit last year

#436

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

sim_card_map wrote: post #271
jamsiedaly wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am from Ireland and from talking to friends and family most people are pretty happy with it. We give them a pass on taxes and they employ thousands of high end engineers here. We then collect large income tax revenues from these workers and subsidise the rest of the country.

Perhaps all countries should adopt 0% corporate tax then, if it's so beneficial.

You joke, but some types of taxes are objectively worse than others. An ideal tax would have to generate sufficient revenue, be non-distortionary, inexpensive, and fair.

We can argue about what's "fair" all day, but "inexpensive" is more objective: some taxes hamper more economic activity than others. A $1 tax on a stock trade will reduce exactly $1 of economic activity. It's so expensive, it's basically pointless. A land value tax, on the other land, is almost free. (And in some cases, negative!)

Most taxes fall somewhere between these two extremes, but corporate income taxes are one of the most expensive, which is why economists aren't big fans of them.

Re: Microsoft Irish subsidiary paid zero corporate tax on £220bn profit last year

#437

Post by empira »

G3rn0ti wrote: post #355
empira wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it all depends on your ideas about taxation, society and the role of government. It is true that huge corporations already "give back" a lot of the money they collected under various forms (income tax, VAT, etc.) But if you think that the role of government is necessary, then you agree that it should collect taxe to exercise this role. And money is taken where money is. We tax corporations because they make bene…

> Ultimately there is no proper justification for any tax, except its necessity to let society fonction properly. But a tax law should adhere to the same standard of quality as other sections of the law. Under the rule of law I -- for one -- expect tax laws at least not to be arbitrary. Just the fact there is money on the table does not entitle the society to grab it.

Of course. And that is not the case at the moment. Microsoft will not get fine for 'avoiding' corporate taxe if what they do is legal. But governments will sure try to change the law so that they grab as much as is needed.

Re: Microsoft Irish subsidiary paid zero corporate tax on £220bn profit last year

#438

Post by [deleted] »

rorykoehler wrote: post #75
jbverschoor wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There you pay 40-50% incometax first

No one pays that much in a progressive tax system. Every time this discussion comes up people spout off these numbers but if you calculate out how much you actually pay it's probably in the 20-30% of total salary range. That's still high but it's just dishonest and makes people look like idiots when they throw around 40% etc. If you are truly paying 40% of your income in tax you are earning millions and are benefitin…

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft Irish subsidiary paid zero corporate tax on £220bn profit last year

#439

Post by jbverschoor »

rorykoehler wrote: post #75
jbverschoor wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There you pay 40-50% incometax first

No one pays that much in a progressive tax system. Every time this discussion comes up people spout off these numbers but if you calculate out how much you actually pay it's probably in the 20-30% of total salary range. That's still high but it's just dishonest and makes people look like idiots when they throw around 40% etc. If you are truly paying 40% of your income in tax you are earning millions and are benefitin…

In the Netherlands:

70k -> 24k tax / 34%

90k -> 35k tax / 38%

120k -> 51k tax / 42%

Re: Microsoft Irish subsidiary paid zero corporate tax on £220bn profit last year

#440

Post by jbverschoor »

rorykoehler wrote: post #104
yunohn wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, I wish I were. Here’s the NL tax brackets: * € 0 - 68.508 37,10% * € 68.508+ 49,50%

There is no tax free allowance in NL? Do you pay extra for healthcare or is it paid for out of that amount?

We pay for healthcare.

There is a free allowance for "foreign skilled workers". They pay 0 income tax over the first 30% of their income. It's total and utter bs. So if you earn 90K, you get 30K net, and get taxed as if you earned 60k

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