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Why Russians do not smile (2002)

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Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#431

Post by ricardobayes »

corty wrote: post #412
tnolet wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so right. There is no European culture. Even neighboring countries with similar values (NL and DE) are wildly different with regard to workplace. I The Netherlands, work stops on Friday around 16:0-ish. In Germany, I had regular meetings at 18:00 on Friday. I honestly thought they were joking.

Really really depends on the company. I've heard the saying from Siemens people (which in Germany are regarded more like public officials, less like employees): "Freitag um eins macht jeder seins". Meaning no serious work is to be done after Fr 1300.

That company is on a different level. They have their own high schools and private education. Many executives are 'bred' in-house so they actually never even experience 'real life', but graduate from a Siemens high school and start climbing the corporate ladder straight after.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#432

Post by elros »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #420
kmarc wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a young Hungarian, I used to confuse the hell out of my American colleagues when I went to a "lengthy" (more than 10sec) explanation answering to "how are you?"s. It took my a while to realize why that was. Now it just entertains me how oblivious I was. OTOH I wouldn't call these "fake"; It's common, it's certainly different than how I socialized, possibly it's greatly misunderstood by many. Along the same train o…

>> "你吃了吗?" I was told by a Chinese colleague that this is a very informal greeting, strictly between friends - pals, rather. I didn't ask, at the time, because I was more preoccupied with trying to pronounce it (my colleague was very helpful). But I would like to know the context behind this. I mean, what is it in asking about having eaten that signifies a greeting? In Greek, for instance, we say "yia sou" ("γειά σου…

> In Greek, for instance, we say "yia sou" ("γειά σου"), for "hello". It means, basically, "have health". (...) I don't get the "have you eaten" greeting and I'm very very curious.

If you eat well, you'll grow healthy, if you eat poorly, you'll grow unhealthy. They stem from the same principles :-)

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#433

Post by rzerda »

cperciva wrote: post #229
davidgh wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Молодец, нельзя, фу, тоска, почемучка. When learning Russian these are just a few of the words I found myself saying even when speaking English. Which gives a hint that a good direct translation maybe isn’t quite there.

There's a rule in linguistics, that the more often a word is used, the shorter it will be -- almost like Huffman coding. In that light, comparing the one-syllable English "Why?" to the three-syllable Russian "почему?" says something about the safety of asking questions in different countries.

I think that “почему/зачем?” is more of an entertainment question in Russia, because the most popular answer would be “it just so happens”. Like, all by itself. You will generally spend much more than three syllables (and maybe some amount of alcohol) to get your answer even from friends. Another fun observation about “почему” is that “normal” russians mostly deal with consequences of the processes out of their direct control. Snow and cold? Ok, find a shelter. Alien invasion? Ok, burn them down and return to a shelter. New “strange” law? Ok, it can’t be properly enforced, or someone will come up with a countermeasure in a week, no need to even leave a shelter. It’s all weather, you don’t question weather.

(Disclaimer: I do not smile)

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#434

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #236
3pt14159 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russians are so extreme. Even though my favourite professors at Waterloo in Canada were Russian, it wasn't until I learned some basic Russian that I finally got over the typical view of them drilled into people by Hollywood. Your run of the mill Russian is honest about their feelings. Not honest about the facts, no, they can cheat on an insurance filing just fine. But that coldness that so many of them seem to have i…

I once met a russian person online who had learned portuguese, my native language. I was extremely impressed. To this day I've never seen anyone else learn portuguese as a second language.

What I find interesting (I speak not a word of Portuguese) is the multitude of Portuguese-X creole languages, particularly the ones tha flourished and are some time still spoken in Sout Asia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese-based_creole_langua...

I think many originated as trade languages, but I find it interesting that languages with such very different roots would mix and create a new language (a Creole, more so; not just a pidjin).

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#435

Post by chestervonwinch »

ta988 wrote: post #416
xwolfi wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who go to HR over this... I am French and I work in China with a lot of Indians. It's been interesting for everyone to say the least. I swear and speak my mind way too much for a corporate Indian, so much that when I spoke frankly to someone higher than me telling him his process was useless and was going double our wasted time for really only the appearance of regulatory compliance, all he could say was ... t…

I've worked in France, US and Finland (all that is super subjective). In France you talk and take informal breaks all the time. In US you occasionally take a long break with a colleague. In Finland the breaks were organized and everybody took them (some food, tea, coffee). TBH I prefer the Finnish way. I'm fine with the US one, but I dread the French way.

What you describe as the "Finnish way" seems like it would translate better to a distributed company. I've been working remotely for over a year now, and I've found that those serendipitous conversations by the coffee-machine "French way" breaks just don't happen remotely.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#436

Post by ta988 »

chestervonwinch wrote: post #435
ta988 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked in France, US and Finland (all that is super subjective). In France you talk and take informal breaks all the time. In US you occasionally take a long break with a colleague. In Finland the breaks were organized and everybody took them (some food, tea, coffee). TBH I prefer the Finnish way. I'm fine with the US one, but I dread the French way.

What you describe as the "Finnish way" seems like it would translate better to a distributed company. I've been working remotely for over a year now, and I've found that those serendipitous conversations by the coffee-machine "French way" breaks just don't happen remotely.

I don't have much experience with remote besides COVID and it was in US so I have no idea of the cultural differences.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#437

Post by Delk »

flurdy wrote: post #386
tnolet wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so right. There is no European culture. Even neighboring countries with similar values (NL and DE) are wildly different with regard to workplace. I The Netherlands, work stops on Friday around 16:0-ish. In Germany, I had regular meetings at 18:00 on Friday. I honestly thought they were joking.

In Norway the office is desolate after 13:00 on a Friday. Only the youngest and the ones without children stick around till 16:00, and not many of them either.

Interesting. Is this because of officially shorter working hours per week, because of longer hours on the other weekdays, or just some kind of an unofficial practice? How common is this?

As another Nordic, I've seen people gladly leave the office around 15:00 or 16:00 (or earlier for some people if they like to start early) on a Friday, but it's hard to imagine people who are on the clock regularly leaving at 13:00 unless they are real early birds.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#438

Post by perl4ever »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #388
ido wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I independently had the same thoughts as geocrasher during similar experiences (and haven't told my friends the question annoys me), and I would say your reaction is uncharitable. Just because you can't relate doesn't mean "some people can find a reason to get upset over anything".

I have the same reaction as jwilber. If I think you are in a healthy state of mind, then “let me know if you need (or want) anything” is sufficient initiative. Even if you are my kid/SO/parents/siblings.

I would put it this way - in my way of thinking and cultural assumptions, any given relationship, close or not, one has a sense of whether asking favors is possible, and what sort are reasonable. Or else a sense of uncertainty about it.

The statement "let me know if you need anything" has a different meaning depending on what it was reasonable to ask already.

It adds no information, due to the meaning of "anything" being entirely contextual.

If I know that they know that the relationship is fairly close, affirming it is a nice thing to do, especially if I'm feeling badly.

But if the relationship is not so close and/or I'm uncertain whether it's appropriate to ask a favor, I can imagine feeling antagonized by the form of an offer which is not really an offer or clarification of where we stand.

If there is ambiguity, there remains ambiguity, is how I see it.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#439

Post by kesava »

andreskytt wrote: post #256

Estonian here. At Skype (10+ years ago) I observed, that members of large cultures (American, British, Hindu etc.) had real trouble adjusting to the predominantly Estonian-based engineering culture. Probably because they had never had to adjust, commonly people adjust to _their_ culture as it tends to dominate large organizations. But once they did make an honest attempt, that was always most welcomed and gained them…

Wtf is a "Hindu" pm?

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#440

Post by durnygbur »

ricardobayes wrote: post #431
corty wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really really depends on the company. I've heard the saying from Siemens people (which in Germany are regarded more like public officials, less like employees): "Freitag um eins macht jeder seins". Meaning no serious work is to be done after Fr 1300.

That company is on a different level. They have their own high schools and private education. Many executives are 'bred' in-house so they actually never even experience 'real life', but graduate from a Siemens high school and start climbing the corporate ladder straight after.

Yeah German corporations, especially industrial ones, can be really dark and sect-like from the perspective of an outsider. Education, intership, job, housing, insurances, life partner, retirement - everything. An entire life lived for a brand, brand owning a city and owned by a city. How far would one go to defend it as a part of one's identity?
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