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OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana

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Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#431

Post by ctvo »

soenkeliebau wrote: post #200
stefan_ wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can rent a car but nobody would suggest the car manufacturer be paid nothing for the privilege just cause the rental company cracked car maintenance and how to fill the tank. The AWS "value add" is only value add in the context of being locked into AWS in the first place.

I'm not sure if I like your comparison to be honest.. not only is it not _just_ maintenance and filling the tank, if we stick with your picture, there is also things like buying the car, paying for it when no one uses it, insuring the car, repairing the car, general logistics of moving it around when someone has a one way rental, etc. - basically making it convenient for consumers to rent a car. Looking at what "as a…

A lot of people on HN have very simplistic views of industries. I sometimes wonder how they're not all billionaires. Everything is easy, simple, *just* this one thing. You'd imagine they're out there killing it.

Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#432

Post by jimmy2020 »

manigandham wrote: post #428
jimmy2020 wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is interpreting as ES was naive by choosing open-source which allows AWS to fork the code. I read this argument all the time about OSS. Where does this conversation lead? I'll tell you: to end any meaningful attempt to create open-source code with a business model aka the end of OSS.

No, I never said any that and it makes no sense. OSS doesn't have anything to do with business models. Anyone can create open-source software and many do. The whole point is that it's free to create, see and modify. Some companies choose business models which include open-source software, and that comes with advantages (increased popularity and growth) and disadvantages (free usage, forks of codebase). The reality th…

I hear you. This is a valid argument. But I see it both ways. I will offer an open-source and get something else in return. My problem is, Amazon is a taker and it's getting greedy and not giving back. So do you think it is legal? Yes, it is. Is it ethical? No. You are rooting for the big guy, many people do. I simply care about the collective good of the industry and I am for the open-source. Just because you can, it doesn't mean you should.

Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#433

Post by galaxyLogic »

pas wrote: post #352
galaxyLogic wrote: post #275

I think this thread is much about shared source licenses like SSPL vs. "orthodox" open source licenses like GPL. Based on the link below it seems to me the difference is that SSPL etc. have a clause which prevents me from making money by selling the use of the licensed software over the network for instance. GPL puts some rather strict rules on users of copyleft software, mainly that you MUST distribute your modifica…

Ethics requires a framework. Just because something is free it doesn't become good. For example free heroin samples! It's a complex problem to even phrase the question of what do we mean by having a healthy software/IT ecosystem. Do simply count the number of users? GDP of the Internet? Number of git repos? Naturally those doesn't even begin to capture the self-balancing dynamics we are after. We want to encourage fo…

Good questions for discussion. There seems to be a commonly held or propagated assumption that GPL good other licenses un-ethical.

Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#434

Post by galaxyLogic »

busterarm wrote: post #274
galaxyLogic wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you provide a link to explain how it violates "Rules 1, 5, 6 & 9 of the OSD"? Thanks

Common freaking sense reading. https://opensource.org/osd If you can't use the software because you're a cloud provider, that's rules 1, 5 and 6 easy. If using it forces you to relicense all of your code under the SSPL that's rule 9. It is well known at this point that the SSPL withdrew their request for recognition to the OSI because they do not meet the rules of the OSD.

> If you can't use the software because you're a cloud provider, that's rules 1, 5 and 6 easy.

I may be mistaken but I thought cloud-providers can use it and offer it for others to use as well, they just can't charge for that. But I may be wrong.

Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#435

Post by manigandham »

jimmy2020 wrote: post #432
manigandham wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I never said any that and it makes no sense. OSS doesn't have anything to do with business models. Anyone can create open-source software and many do. The whole point is that it's free to create, see and modify. Some companies choose business models which include open-source software, and that comes with advantages (increased popularity and growth) and disadvantages (free usage, forks of codebase). The reality th…

I hear you. This is a valid argument. But I see it both ways. I will offer an open-source and get something else in return. My problem is, Amazon is a taker and it's getting greedy and not giving back. So do you think it is legal? Yes, it is. Is it ethical? No. You are rooting for the big guy, many people do. I simply care about the collective good of the industry and I am for the open-source. Just because you can, i…

I find it perfectly ethical to offer a service to customers based on open-source software. Again, nothing prevented ES from doing this for years, or sticking to only making proprietary addons. And again, there are several other companies offering the same services and many startups have built massive businesses on various open-source components.

Forks are a celebrated part of OSS and we only have more choice as customers now. The industry is better than ever. You keep ignoring these facts so at this point it's clear that you just have a personal bias against Amazon rather than a cohesive argument regarding OSS.

Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#436

Post by ballenf »

jen20 wrote: post #267
ballenf wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Price gouging is the practice of using outsized leverage in a particular market to charge excessive prices. Like snow shovels doubling in price after a snow storm. Or $10 water bottles after a hurricane. So for AWS the term is arguably correctly applied. But I'd be more worried about the market if AWS was artificially undercutting pricing because it would kill the incentive to create competitors or innovation in the…

> So for AWS the term is arguably correctly applied. Can you elicit the argument by which this is correctly applied?

Point was just that having the "price on the tin" is irrelevant to whether there's price gouging going on.

But, I guess the argument could be similar to the case against Apple for its iOS App Store: there are lots of competitors, but the lock-in arguably creates a market definition of Apple customers. AWS customers are largely locked-in and at the mercy of AWS prices.

That's the argument. I'm not sure I buy it, but it's one perspective.

Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#437

Post by redwood »

busterarm wrote: post #309
redwood wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What surveys are you referring to? Got any sources?

the yearly Stack Overflow survey, for one. Find me a bunch of developers and infrastructure people who are EXCITED about running MongoDB. I guarantee you're going to find a 7-10+ year old infrastructure if you do.

Pretty misleading when it leads the most wanted category in that very survey (maybe you're thinking of what people report already using) https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020#technology-mo...

Re: OpenSearch: AWS fork of Elasticsearch and Kibana

#438

Post by galaxyLogic »

leosarev wrote: post #369
deanCommie wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kotlin was created by the Jetbrains team behind Intellij/Resharper. It's named after a city outside of St. Petersburg, Russia. It has nothing to do with Google...

Kotlin is an island, not a city. City is called Kronshatd.

City is called Kronstadt. Sorry, couldn't resist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kronstadt_rebellion

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