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Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

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Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I was half expecting this was going to be using Monero, one of the more popular privacy-oriented cryptocurrencies I know of that's already being used. E.g. the only cryptos I've seen people accepting on dark web markets are Bitcoin and Monero.

Monero is clearly the most practical secure coin as evidenced by it's popularity on the darknet. But I think what MobileCoin offers is speed.

And way less energy consumption, according to their website.

Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Early in Signal's development they would add privacy features. Lately they have been adding social features. This is intentional and relates to Signal's growth in the past few years. It's not "a hacker tool for nerds" it's "a friendly, easy to use chat app with stickers & voice messages (also strong encryption)." IRC does one thing and does it well, and barely anyone uses it. The "clean technical vision" story isn'…

> a friendly, easy to use chat app with stickers & voice messages (also strong encryption). Except it's not, strong encryption and privacy emphasis goes against easy to use. I recently got my family to switch to Telegram (because I like the interface) - my sister works in an environment where she has to have a separate work phone without a camera and everything synced up out of the box, history, etc. Brother lost his…

> Except it's not... my sister ...

I don't see how these relate. Signal isn't explicitly aimed at high security targets, although it works for them (seeing the Snowden endorsement). Signal is about bringing encryption to the masses. Making E2EE the default choice for everyone. Is is much more about mass surveillance. Your sister has a different threat model, one where they are also concerned about the physical device being compromised (i.e. stolen, hacked, or being physically accessed).

These are different threat models. For E2EE for the masses you need things like stickers and for it to be "fun" in addition to being a tool. In your sister's threat model she's more concerned about the tool over the fun part. It is a work phone after all (I mean this is why they take out the camera).

E2EE for the masses is pointless if you can't appeal to the masses. Cypher nerds will always have their fun toys to communicate with but we are also in dire need for something that prevents mass surveillance. That is, after all, one of the fundamental necessities of a democracy: being able to speak your mind without fear of government spying/involvement (this is the reason they got funding from Radio Free America in the past). Unfortunately this means some compromises need to be made. But as far as I'm concerned Signal has done far better than any service I've seen and the relative leak is near zero. The weak points are SGX and pins, which only hide some minor metadata (even fully leaked this would be better than WA or Telegram).

Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#435

The comment from the article echos my own sentiments: > Speaking solely as a person who is really into encrypted messaging, it terrifies me that they're going to take this really clean story of an encrypted messenger and mix it up with the nightmare of laws and regulations and vulnerability that is cryptocurrency. Moreover, there are three other points I'd add: 1. I don't like "do everything" apps like WeChat or Line…

I agree with all of your points.

The counter argument would be seeing the success of WeChat in China and wanting to reproduce that success AND expecting that if they don't do it someone else will do it and take their market.

Whether that's true or not I don't know but if I believed it was true then your arguments wouldn't matter since I'd believe not doing it is an existential risk.

Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#436
post #101
post #13

The technology is cool, but I don't really know if I want KYC regulatory risk in my encrypted messaging client. I just want italics.

Then why use Signal at all? You had to have KYC to get a phone number in most countries which you had to give to Signal which could expose your location etc via tower pings to anyone you communicate with unless you port it to a VoIP number (how many know how to do that?) You also had to provide a phone number to get a Google or Apple account to install Signal because anonymous signed install methods are not supported…

>You also had to provide a phone number to get a Google or Apple account to install Signal because anonymous signed install methods are not supported, which moxie says is intentional to collect analytics.

Signal distributes a standalone APK for android, which does function without google play services.

https://signal.org/android/apk/

Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Early in Signal's development they would add privacy features. Lately they have been adding social features. This is intentional and relates to Signal's growth in the past few years. It's not "a hacker tool for nerds" it's "a friendly, easy to use chat app with stickers & voice messages (also strong encryption)." IRC does one thing and does it well, and barely anyone uses it. The "clean technical vision" story isn'…

> a friendly, easy to use chat app with stickers & voice messages (also strong encryption). Except it's not, strong encryption and privacy emphasis goes against easy to use. I recently got my family to switch to Telegram (because I like the interface) - my sister works in an environment where she has to have a separate work phone without a camera and everything synced up out of the box, history, etc. Brother lost his…

I recently switched WhatsApp from Android to iOS and I was flabbergasted there was no official mechanism to retain message history. As annoying as it is, it goes to show most people don't actually value it highly.

Facebook would have no trouble funding a basic iCloud-GDrive bridge if there was enough demand for it.

Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#439
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin rates worse than North Korea in terms of wealth distribution as measured by the Gini coefficient. [1] [1] https://blog.dshr.org/2018/10/gini-coefficients-of-cryptocur...

All calculations of this sort are fatally flawed because they assume all the coins in one address are owned by one person. That would be like calculating the US Gini coefficient assuming that all bank accounts are owned by the CEO of the bank.

> All calculations of this sort are fatally flawed because they assume all the coins in one address are owned by one person.

But don’t the calculations equally assume coins spread out across multiple addresses aren’t owned by one person, when in fact they often are?

Re: Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

#440
post #157

If even Signal is compromised, I'm debating just going back to WhatsApp for convenience and assuming that every message I send and every contact I have is fully public information that can be used by advertisers and governments to profile me.

Hmm, any reservations about Matrix ?

Questionable UX in the flagship/reference Element client, and it's laggy/slow no matter where your homeserver is hosted. After so many years, it's still a curiosity and for-hackers-only experience that's pretty much just like IRC but with lots of lag. I'm about ready to to give up on it.

I still love the idea of it and I hope it actually gets good/usable one day. Until then, I can recommend it only if you want to be an early adopter, but not if you want a good experience.

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