Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work • Hacker News Board

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#431

Post by alexgmcm » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 12:20 PM UTC

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #356

alexgmcm wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have social contact outside of work though. WFH gives people back time to explore hobbies, join clubs, meet people etc. The social contact you have at work often feels forced and artificial - you can choose your friends, your colleagues not so much.

> you can choose your friends, your colleagues not so much I did choose them, luckily I got to audition them from around 300 people I've been forced to interact with through over my career during the past 10 years. Not only do I get to know their characters well because I can decide if I like them or not and find out if they're trustworthy through working together I also get the extra benefit of being recommended for…

I didn't mean sports clubs. I don't like sports much either other than the gym, where I go alone.

But in my city Meetup.com has a huge amount of clubs and groups for basically anything, and I'm in Barcelona so the city isn't even that big and it's not all English-speaking (which I guess may be more likely to use Meetup).

There are sometimes local Facebook groups for stuff as well, I went on day-trips to various places like that.

I know my colleagues who are into tabletop games and D&D go to those groups, I personally just went to language exchanges and hiking/tourism groups. There are even groups for local video gamers etc. as I guess it's nice being able to meet in person too.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#432

Post by alexgmcm » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 12:21 PM UTC

llampx wrote: post #311

alexgmcm wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have social contact outside of work though. WFH gives people back time to explore hobbies, join clubs, meet people etc. The social contact you have at work often feels forced and artificial - you can choose your friends, your colleagues not so much.

Does wfh really give back time to people? From what I've seen with colleagues and friends, it mostly has led to longer working hours. The commute time and the time before dinner has been replaced by more work. If you have been able to draw the line and log off at 5pm, good for you, but that's not the experience for a lot of people.

Yeah, disconnecting can be hard. I was one of the guys who always left my laptop in the office.

But I'm not working extra hours every day, and given the time I save on commuting and lunch hour and being able to do various chores during the day - I think it's still a significant win.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#433

Post by TigeriusKirk » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 12:26 PM UTC

darawk wrote: post #292

raducu wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, no, their primary concern is their own interest. A lot of politics gets much harder in remote work, and this is what these people are best at. It's not productivity, it's politics that is much harder to do when remote working.

You think that executives are forcing developers to come into the office so that they can play politics with their subordinates?

Yes.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#434

Post by ttfxxcc » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 12:28 PM UTC

o-__-o wrote: post #415

dgellow wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading this thread makes me realize that not everybody is currently in a lockdown. Co-working spaces where I am are closed (due to the virus) since ~October and won't reopen before a while :(

Coffee shop patios are open here. Lots of folks working without masks there (socially distanced of course). Indoor spaces are still limited. I was going to go work at a coffee shop today but it’s a bit too cold

How can you actually be productive working on a laptop at a coffee shop? A tiny screen, an awful keyboard and mouse, constant noise and distractions in the background. I don't get it.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#435

Post by bootsz » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 12:28 PM UTC

ralph84 wrote: post #61

> If employees want to work from home beyond Sept. 1, they will need to formally apply for a max of 14 days annually Somehow this sounds to me like: "Oh, and remember: next Friday... is Hawaiian shirt day. So, you know, if you want to, go ahead and wear a Hawaiian shirt and jeans."

This statement as quoted is false. I'm guessing it is a misinterpretation of the policy that employees may work remotely from a different country for up to 14 days per year without approval. The announcement that came out yesterday stated that this policy has been reinstated. It does not apply to domestic WFH.

Source: I am an employee

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#436

Post by jbluepolarbear » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 12:29 PM UTC

bumbada wrote: post #334

I have been working remotely for decades. Most people can't work remotely and productively because they are not trained to do so. E.g. You are in your office (inside your home) and your wife, your dog or child enters it demanding you do some kind of non important issue right now, distracting you from your work.You need to be trained to not them let them distract you. The people living in your house need to be trained…

I’ve been working remotely on and off over my career and full time for the last 2 years. I get distracted all day (have 2 kids) and I’m highly productive. I think the biggest adjustment people don’t understand is how to be more asynchronous. Working remotely requires the whole team to understand that reply’s and answers won’t be instant and jumping into calls should be the norm. Being used to impromptu calls was the hardest adjustment for me, but I’ve been doing it for a long time so I was already adjust before everyone became remote.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#437

Post by outsomnia » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 12:29 PM UTC

intricatedetail wrote: post #380

bumbada wrote: post #334

I have been working remotely for decades. Most people can't work remotely and productively because they are not trained to do so. E.g. You are in your office (inside your home) and your wife, your dog or child enters it demanding you do some kind of non important issue right now, distracting you from your work.You need to be trained to not them let them distract you. The people living in your house need to be trained…

Worst thing is that my partner thinks sitting by a computer is not work and she feels entitled to interrupt any time she pleases. I didn't know that side when I worked in office. The first few months were difficult and she only came to terms with that when I started packing my things and said I will be moving out. I learned that this is probably wrong relationship but it is hard to throw away those years, but I can't…

Turn it around and clearly establish and promise the time that belongs away from work, so the message is not just "get away from me" which makes anxiety and behaviours seeking reassurance that exacerbates the problem.

It's "our time starts at 5pm, dinner, and the rest of the evening".

Lunchtime walks together works for me too.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#438

Post by bootsz » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 12:31 PM UTC

jpeg_hero wrote: post #49

I feel like the "max 14 days per year " put the slam down on 2 days home / 3 days office everyone said would happen.

The article is wrong. The 14 day limit applies only to working from a different country than the one your job is based in. Partial WFH is very much still on the table for the foreseeable future as far as we know.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#439

Post by UI_at_80x24 » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 12:34 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #421

bumbada wrote: post #334

I have been working remotely for decades. Most people can't work remotely and productively because they are not trained to do so. E.g. You are in your office (inside your home) and your wife, your dog or child enters it demanding you do some kind of non important issue right now, distracting you from your work.You need to be trained to not them let them distract you. The people living in your house need to be trained…

This chestnut 'home has too many distractions' line is getting old. Work has equivalent distractions, and those people actually get paid to distract you. It takes time management wherever you sit your butt.

>This chestnut 'home has too many distractions' line is getting old.

And yet in my home it's accurate. Of course, your mileage may vary.

Where I work, it's like a library. Quiet, serene, productive, but tense.

At home it's noisy, disjointed, non-productive [hey look, I'm on HN!], and full of disruptions [slack, 5+ zoom meetings per day, kids screaming [Brother keeps hitting me!!!], and wife trying to live her life [TV, music, etc...]. But it's relaxed.

I prefer working from home, I feel like it's better, but there is a lot that can be improved.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#440

Post by DebtDeflation » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 12:35 PM UTC

chii wrote: post #398

DebtDeflation wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When companies started announcing "permanent 100% WFH" last Spring I knew it would never last. I feel bad for the people who picked up and moved from SV or NYC and now are being told to expect to be back in their old office by June. Though it was naive to think you could move to a cabin in Wyoming with a Starlink and continue to pull an SV or NYC level TC.

> move to a cabin in Wyoming with a Starlink and continue to pull an SV or NYC level TC. so why exactly shouldn't that be possible!? It's not like the work/output decreased (for the most part). The only legitimate way for compensation to drop should be due to competition - allowing remote should also mean allowing more people to apply for a position, and thus, higher supply of potential workers. This _should_ natural…

>competition - allowing remote should also mean allowing more people to apply for a position

That's exactly how it would happen, and it would happen very quickly. There are talented software engineers all over the US and the world, SV does not have the only ones.