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Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

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Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#431

Post by yazaddaruvala »

salamandersauce wrote: post #428
yazaddaruvala wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firstly, you mean general purpose computing device. Personal computer just means a single person uses it. By the current definition my electric tooth brush is a personal computer. Secondly can you please define general purpose computing device such that it doesn’t include my toaster, pressure/slow cooker, or oven? > "-There's an app for that." My definition for general purpose computing device is, when there needs to…

You used personal computer above. I'm not typing out "general purpose computing device" every time. I think most rational people don't consider their oven to be a personal computer even if it has computer controlled parts. > Secondly can you please define general purpose computing device such that it doesn’t include my toaster, pressure/slow cooker, or oven? Sure. I'll use my toaster oven as an example, a Panasonic N…

> It doesn't have any sort of way for the user to run "programs" or instructions in memory outside the predefined functions

You’re intentionally picking a dumb toaster. I could also intentionally pick a dumb phone. What about the toasters that run Linux? or use a Raspberry Pi internally?

> ways to load and run instructions not included or designed by the manufacturer but a third party

As far as I know an iOS device can’t load non-Apple or non-Apple-approved code from a third party. Not even by me without explicit approval from Apple (which I need to pay them for the privilege).

How is the current situation meaningfully different from Apple hiring consultants, code reviewing the consultants code and adding that as optional iOS code (with the consultants retaining rights to the code)? Or including a random open source library into iOS as a downloadable, optional part of the OS (with the open source contributors retaining rights to the code)?

And to state again: as a customer I paid for this device wanting these limitations.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#432

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

swebs wrote: post #429
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So you probably need Librem 5 for more performance Librem has its own set of problems and does not change my opinion that this iteration of the free Linux mobile ecosystem is stillborn. My feeling is that we'll have to wait another decade for new players to appear and try everything all over again. > There is also OpenStreetMap, which is much faster. The OpenStreetMap.org website is a tech demo, it isn’t really mea…

>The Desktop-Firefox-for-PinePhone hack doesn’t get updated often (or possibly at all). I still have no idea what you're referring to. It's the same build of Firefox on your desktop. It was just updated from version 86 to 87 this week. Same as the desktop. There is no "mobile Linux ecosystem". Just 1 Linux ecosystem, with some apps supporting a 360px screen width, and some not. It is simply desktop Linux, on a phone.

> It's the same build of Firefox on your desktop. It was just updated from version 86 to 87 this week

Distros like Mobian on the PinePhone don't ship vanilla Firefox. They ship Firefox along with custom UI modifications originally borrowed from the Firefox-for-Postmarket-OS project that make Firefox at least somewhat usable on the PinePhone's screen dimensions.

Even when the version of Firefox is updated, the accompanying Firefox-for-Postmarket-OS hacks do not see much improvement. The upstream Firefox devs have not put work into making Firefox’s UI fully usable at those dimensions, and so for time being phone users are stuck with the limited functionality that the Firefox-for-Postmarket-OS hacks provide.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#433

Post by fsflover »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #432
swebs wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The Desktop-Firefox-for-PinePhone hack doesn’t get updated often (or possibly at all). I still have no idea what you're referring to. It's the same build of Firefox on your desktop. It was just updated from version 86 to 87 this week. Same as the desktop. There is no "mobile Linux ecosystem". Just 1 Linux ecosystem, with some apps supporting a 360px screen width, and some not. It is simply desktop Linux, on a phone.

> It's the same build of Firefox on your desktop. It was just updated from version 86 to 87 this week Distros like Mobian on the PinePhone don't ship vanilla Firefox. They ship Firefox along with custom UI modifications originally borrowed from the Firefox-for-Postmarket-OS project that make Firefox at least somewhat usable on the PinePhone's screen dimensions. Even when the version of Firefox is updated, the accompa…

> for time being phone users are stuck with the limited functionality

This is a pretty pessimistic view. I'm sure the patches will be upstreamed soon. Even Purism works on that according to their "Fund Your App" page: https://puri.sm/fund-your-app/.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#434

Post by niutech »

davidkellis wrote: post #18

What are the best alternatives to iOS and Android? Is it reasonable to consider the hardware itself "safe", given that the software tracks and calls home about every single thing it does? What are the alternatives?

Ubuntu Touch, Plasma Mobile, Sailfish OS, Nemo Mobile, postmarketOS. I use UT as my main smartphone OS and it does everything I need.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#435

Post by niutech »

zibzab wrote: post #422

Not sure if I agree with the author. For example, the phones send tons of data to Google when first booted. But there is no data on the phone at that point! Then maybe this is not data gathering just bad software??

There IS a lot of data even at the very first boot: unique device ID, IP address, MAC address, location, SSID, etc. It can be used to track you later on.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#436

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

fsflover wrote: post #433
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the same build of Firefox on your desktop. It was just updated from version 86 to 87 this week Distros like Mobian on the PinePhone don't ship vanilla Firefox. They ship Firefox along with custom UI modifications originally borrowed from the Firefox-for-Postmarket-OS project that make Firefox at least somewhat usable on the PinePhone's screen dimensions. Even when the version of Firefox is updated, the accompa…

> for time being phone users are stuck with the limited functionality This is a pretty pessimistic view. I'm sure the patches will be upstreamed soon. Even Purism works on that according to their "Fund Your App" page: https://puri.sm/fund-your-app/ .

The Firefox-for-Postmarket-OS modifications don’t really patch Firefox in a way that can be upstreamed. They are merely UI settings that disable some elements that would take up too much space on the screen, and much of Firefox's UI still won't work regardless. Only significant work on upstream Firefox itself would make a difference, and neither Mozilla nor Purism have the manpower for that.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#437

Post by heavyset_go »

jodrellblank wrote: post #420
heavyset_go wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By the way, in terms of security, the iPhone isn't even the most secure platform right now, you still have tons of private apis, privacy issues and ways to snoop data back, that's exactly why companies ask you to install their app instead of directly going to their website because on the web they can't do any of that... Don't forget the fact that iOS exploits are cheaper than Android exploits because iOS exploits a…

Imagine if it was a terrible platform, and there was a bigger, cheaper, more sideloadable competitor you could easily use instead. Why would you spend so much time trying to get the courts to force Apple to let you into the ecosystem without following their rules? Why wouldn't you simply use the platform that already does all the things you say you want?

You're asking why I think Apple should follow the law?

Apple should follow the law because healthy, robust markets would benefit hundreds of millions of consumers in the US.

Also, they should follow the law because it's the law. They have no problem using the law against their competitors, and even complementary businesses like repair shops, so they should follow it, too.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#438

Post by salamandersauce »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #431
salamandersauce wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You used personal computer above. I'm not typing out "general purpose computing device" every time. I think most rational people don't consider their oven to be a personal computer even if it has computer controlled parts. > Secondly can you please define general purpose computing device such that it doesn’t include my toaster, pressure/slow cooker, or oven? Sure. I'll use my toaster oven as an example, a Panasonic N…

> It doesn't have any sort of way for the user to run "programs" or instructions in memory outside the predefined functions You’re intentionally picking a dumb toaster. I could also intentionally pick a dumb phone. What about the toasters that run Linux? or use a Raspberry Pi internally? > ways to load and run instructions not included or designed by the manufacturer but a third party As far as I know an iOS device c…

Show me a single toaster that runs Linux. Or uses a Raspberry Pi. I did not pick a "dumb" toaster. Don't be ridiculous. Most toasters don't even have a LCD display or features like Waffle or Pizza modes. It's on the smarter scale of toaster.

I am a third party. I can load a non-Apple approved app onto an iOS device for free. Even ignoring jailbreaking by using Xcode. The app will only work for 7 days before I have to resign it but it doesn't need to be submitted or approved by Apple or follow their store guidelines at all. Altstore basically wraps that process up into a little bow to make it easier. Don't even need your own Mac.

I could also use Pythonista to write a working Apple I emulator. Is the iPhone still not general purpose PC?

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#439

Post by zibzab »

niutech wrote: post #435
zibzab wrote: post #422

Not sure if I agree with the author. For example, the phones send tons of data to Google when first booted. But there is no data on the phone at that point! Then maybe this is not data gathering just bad software??

There IS a lot of data even at the very first boot: unique device ID, IP address, MAC address, location, SSID, etc. It can be used to track you later on.

Thats like 1K data in total

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#440

Post by niutech »

zibzab wrote: post #439
niutech wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There IS a lot of data even at the very first boot: unique device ID, IP address, MAC address, location, SSID, etc. It can be used to track you later on.

Thats like 1K data in total

But it's very sensitive data.
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