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The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

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Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why churches would say that, when they were the cornerstone of culture until a few tens of years ago.

I think AnimalMuppet is talking about more evangelical churches, whereas you are talking more about what used to be called "mainline" churches.

I think that's right.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Antisocial media" would a truthful title. I don't even like texting. Email is a letter replacement. Call me and pickup when I call, or GTFO. Faceblock, Twatter, Instaglam, Discard, Snapper, TikTak, LinkedOut can all listen to the flushing sound of me deleting their advertising monetization. "Buh buh all of your Ivy and Pac12 associations that made you look important on a résumé." Too bad, I haven't talked to most of…

Faceblock, Twatter, Instaglam, Discard, Snapper, TikTak, LinkedOut I really hoped that Clubhouse would corral all the hardcore narcissists away from all other social media, but it's made them worse, they spend all their time on Twitter bragging about how they're on Clubhouse now. Pathetic.

So far I only ever hear about clubhouse on hn. Though I'm not really on social media much. I just checked the about page and it actually sounds like a neat idea - voice based chat forums, where new people have to listen for a bit and be given permission to talk from those already talking. Doesn't sound like it's about gaining likes or showing off or inanely talking about yourself. I don't know if it's any good or if the world needs yet another social media platform but it sounds more suited to genuine conversation than quite a few of the current big social media services.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#433
post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When a new trends starts organically, it's all impulsive and genuine, then people start to profit on it and the game is over. I think I have seen the same argument about anime conventions. The idea is that a trend starts with a small group of passionate people, as things get bigger and more popular, followers arrive. Followers are not really passionate, they just jump on the bandwagon, but will leave and jump on an…

> And it is not all bad. While the community is less genuine, it is also more productive, if anything, just from the sheer numbers. And it’s basically just a natural and recurring cycle: Phase 1: Novel thinker creates something new Phase 2: Early adopters pick it up Phase 3: General public joins in Phase 4: Early adopters get crowded out by newcomers and turned off by lack of ‘authenticity’ and either retreat to obsc…

You just described the process of gentrification.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#434
post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When a new trends starts organically, it's all impulsive and genuine, then people start to profit on it and the game is over. I think I have seen the same argument about anime conventions. The idea is that a trend starts with a small group of passionate people, as things get bigger and more popular, followers arrive. Followers are not really passionate, they just jump on the bandwagon, but will leave and jump on an…

> And it is not all bad. While the community is less genuine, it is also more productive, if anything, just from the sheer numbers. And it’s basically just a natural and recurring cycle: Phase 1: Novel thinker creates something new Phase 2: Early adopters pick it up Phase 3: General public joins in Phase 4: Early adopters get crowded out by newcomers and turned off by lack of ‘authenticity’ and either retreat to obsc…

I'm not sure the lack of 'authenticity' from newcomers is an actual phenomenon, or at least not as universal as people make it out to be. One can be authentic in joining a community after it's no longer a niche only hipsters know about. D&D, for instance, has gotten much greater visibility thanks to Youtube and Critical Role, but the new fans seem just as passionate and creative as the old fans.

The assumption seems to be that only the early adopters care, but that seems unnecessarily elitist.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#435
post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When a new trends starts organically, it's all impulsive and genuine, then people start to profit on it and the game is over. I think I have seen the same argument about anime conventions. The idea is that a trend starts with a small group of passionate people, as things get bigger and more popular, followers arrive. Followers are not really passionate, they just jump on the bandwagon, but will leave and jump on an…

As someone who runs a small anime convention, there's a long tail of anime conventions that just barely sit in the black, unable to pay much to anyone. Those only really exist as passion projects.

I staffed several amateur anime conventions 10-20 years ago, as a volunteer. No one was paid, except when we needed licensed professionals, passion projects obviously. In the early days, we even showed fansubs (illegally of course). During that time, things became more professional, organizers started caring about copyright laws, I witnessed the rise of large, commercial events, and an explosion of small, amateur events followed by their gradual downfall.

I am among the ones responsible for that downfall. Simply, I moved on with my life, I stopped staffing, then I stopped attending, and so did the friends I made there, except for a few of them who somehow turned it into a job. The "new generation" is certainly passionate, but they have less to offer, simply because most of it is mainstream now. They don't have the budget for doing big things like the big commercial players, and they can't ignore copyright because owners actually care. As a result, their events are more like private clubs, for those that still exist.

On the bright side, we now have anime licensed and even produced in the west, we get to see major personalities, coming straight from Japan, and many things that were unthinkable when we started out.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#436
post #360
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's weird. I mean, you do you, but if this is a popular opinion, I had no idea. On the contrary, I'm mildly annoyed when someone calls me to say something that could've said over the text. And I don't think of it as a personal preference: async information exchange is objectively less intrusive, which is why it should be preferred when possible (which isn't always the case, because it's also objectively less fluen…

> On the contrary, I'm mildly annoyed when someone calls me to say something that could've said over the text. And I'm just as annoyed when someone keeps sending me texts when a 5 minute call would have been far more efficient. If we have sent more than 3 back and forths in text, it's time to switch to a call. For me, the twenty-somethings are terrible about this. They are just absolutely allergic to voice communicat…

So, call him back, what's your problem?

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#437

Charles Taylor, the philosopher, covered much of this about twenty years ago with far less snark and buzzwords. I strongly recommend reading The Ethics of Authenticity. It’s all about the trend of individualism and how it precedes social media by...centuries. https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674987692 Social media is no longer authentic so you’re seeing a slowly growing backlash against it. https://se…

I think the whole thing is bogus from the start, the 'social media' idea I mean. These are companies.. they're not here to make culture or societies.. they're parasite leeching on your human needs. When a new trends starts organically, it's all impulsive and genuine, then people start to profit on it and the game is over.

I think that phenomenon has existed long before the internet, though.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unfailingly polite regardless of how cruel it is. Give me an example of a counterculture that was not derided as rude by the mainstream of the time?

That is ridiculous. Newscasters are far less polite and far more openly partisan, combative, and opinionated than they use to be. Comments on articles and videos, and in social media, are far less polite than people replying with letters to the press in the past.

I guess you should be considered lucky for not being exposed to the Freeper comments section 20 years ago, or Fox News comments sections, or Patch.com comments sections. They've always been bad.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While id was certainly an Internet aware company in 1993 most consumers were not. Right, so you agree? This thread is about counter culture, and your talking about generic internet usage facts and % of playstation sales when it went mainstream. I played Wolf and Doom as shareware in Australia when they were released, including Kali.

Your original point was that Doom was some huge watershed moment for gaming where PCs and the Internet gained prominence. I'm saying you're wrong. 1. Doom's distribution was (to consumers) largely CD-ROMs. 2. Doom didn't even support Internet multiplayer, only modem-modem or LAN (IPX/SPX). 3. The game industry was a multi billion dollar industry by the time of Doom's release. Doom didn't somehow accelerate growth of…

> Your original point was that Doom was some huge watershed moment for gaming where PCs and the Internet gained prominence.

No, someone mentioned that mortal kombat and doom were examples of counter culture, and as someone living in rural Australia in the early 90s, I agreed.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love the line about calling. People in this thread dont get it - if you're going to triage me against your other priorities, and if you dont care enough about our friendship to try to pickup when I call - you're not really a friend. We can still be friendly, but you're too self obsessed and 'busy' (in the inorganic, modern sense) to really be a friend

When I'm very busy or focused, and then a friend calls, I don't want to sound short and perturbed, and I don't want to answer just to plead "I'm too busy right now". This is what voicemail is for, and so long as the call is responded to in relatively short time then no foul has occurred. I'd be leery of "friends" who want attention and interaction on demand. Only my wife has that right.

'try to pickup' - totally hear you on the voicemail thing. If you're consistently too busy to take any calls from any social contacts, you're too busy to have a deep friendship anyway. We can still be friends, but never having real substantial conversations is going to he a limiting factor on how deep that goes.

If you're married, of course you should prioritize your immediate family - a lot of people get more distance on existing social relationships or lose track of friends at that stage of life for that reason. It's not really a bad thing, it is what it is - the loss of an active friendship.

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