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Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

economist.com

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Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#431

Post by TrackerFF »

ipnon wrote: post #308

Do we want equality in this area? Should we change schooling to make it easier for boys than girls until we get to 50/50 achievement? Or should we retain the status quo to boost the chances of women succeeding later in their lives when they do not achieve in their careers at the same level as men?

In some countries, various (college/uni) majors/programs have their own quotas or bonus "entrance points" for gender, if the majors are very unbalanced. If/when over time this balance gets closer to 50/50, those quotas/points are removed.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#432

Post by hntrader »

abhyudaya63 wrote: post #380
hntrader wrote: post #325

This could be a consequence of the variability hypothesis[1] interacting with the way grades are distributed. If grades tend to have a lot of negative skewness, that means that it pays to be in a group that has the least number of extreme underperformers, since your group's outperformers are handicapped due to the upper bound existing near the mean. That means we expect men to underperform in domains that have lots o…

Variability hypothesis seems to downplay the cultural aspects a lot. Males were generally thought to have better visual sense of an object but the advantage was nullified when females were tested with objects that they are most familiar with. And you are right that we should check for inter-country data. It will provide a more accurate view.

  "better visual sense"
This example pertains to mean skill level which doesn't seem relevant to the variability hypothesis (which pertains instead to variance of traits/skills/interests).

If your point is that the empirical findings underpinning the variability hypothesis may have some cultural causes instead of being only genetic, then we don't disagree. But I wouldn't agree that the culture-over-genes perspective is undersubscribed, that's the most fashionable and socially acceptable perspective to take.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#433

Post by knorker »

xyzzyz wrote: post #394
blaser-waffle wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife was a teacher and she noted that most over her male colleagues were leaving, especially in on the elementary and middle school level. Too many assumptions or allegations, plus the perception that guys can't be nurturing. Most of the men still in education were older and were able to migrate away from day-to-day teaching into admin roles. In 20 years those guys will be gone and there won't be any male teachers…

> Too many assumptions or allegations, plus the perception that guys can't be nurturing. Sounds like very hostile and sexist environment. I wonder what efforts the school systems take to ensure gender diversity among its employees.

In today's climate perfectly gender diverse means 100% women.

There was a bank that bragged some years ago about being the most diverse bank, since they had 65% or whatever women on the board. 50% was explicitly less diverse than 65%.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#434

Post by endisneigh »

BlargMcLarg wrote: post #408
endisneigh wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The "women are wonderful" effect doesn't stop. I would ask you actually search around a little and read my point again, as well as the many other comments, before dragging down the conversation with phrases such as "convenient excuse". How do you reconcile this with discrimination towards women? Also the whole trope that women somehow cannot compete and can only collaborate, as if the two things are at odds, is als…

There are multiple possible explanations as to why they won't compete. One of them is incapability through biological inferiority, which I highly doubt is the case. Another is systematic bias. Another is really as simple as not wanting to . Again, please read what is actually written, not what you want to answer to. Frankly, this "discrimination towards women" may as well be turned around with one simple trick. Which…

One thing I'm always surprised with is how people are so confident in their own baseless, unsubstantiated claims.

Your entire comment basically is based off your own bias. Research can and already has been done on this issue, showing that you're probably wrong. I implore you to read this paper which already puts to rest your outdated notions that men are somehow more competitive than women. I'd like to emphasize the following with respect to competition and finances:

  > The same line of reasoning might lead to the 
  expectation that men should compete more about  financial 
  success than women do, since this would make them more 
  attractive to women. The data, however, do not support 
  this: there was no sex difference in the strength of 
  competitive feeling about attaining  financial success, 
  nor were there consistent differences in the fraction of 
  diary entries concerned with things that might be 
  thought to lead to  financial success, such as success at 
  school; in fact, in Study 1 women had a
  larger fraction of diary entries about success at work 
  than men did.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/13644511_Are_men_mo...

No worries though, I'll just believe your baseless conjecture instead of a peer-reviewed paper.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#435

Post by NoSorryCannot »

throwaway02345 wrote: post #345
szhu wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, why is this a data point we are required to ignore? There's been a lot of discourse about bias lately, so I feel like this is a data point people will welcome hearing. Thanks for sharing it.

Because if you don't characterize women as an oppressed people in every possible instance then you're sexist. The truth is that women benefit a great deal from the general goodwill that society grants them. From legal sentencing, to taking your kids to the park, to mentorship opportunities, to simply crossing the road. The list goes on, but western society generally goes out of its way to accommodate the needs of wom…

I can see why you worry your commentary will be perceived as sexist.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#436

Post by at_a_remove »

Veen wrote: post #386
standardUser wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally speaking, the clearly oppressed and disadvantaged group is the one we focus on in terms of equity. Men are not, nor have they ever been, that group.

It may be true that men have historically dominated the top of most institutions—that most "oppressors" are men—but it doesn't follow that the majority of men are privileged or that most women are oppressed and disadvantaged, especially in modern western societies.

Yes, that is called the "apex fallacy."

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#437

Post by Causality1 »

insert_coin wrote: post #401
Causality1 wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll be a long time yet. We haven't even moved past cutting pieces of them off for cosmetic reasons.

What? religion has been doing that for thousands of years.

Indeed. My point is that we haven't matured to the point of respecting our children enough to not mutilate them, which is a far more basic accomplishment than respecting their psychological needs. We force teenagers to adhere to the sleep schedules of adults despite numerous studies indicating doing so damages their health and academic performance. There are a lot of steps between where we are now and a society that will condemn us as barbarians for not providing boys extra PE.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#438

Post by _-david-_ »

audunw wrote: post #427
_-david-_ wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the best situation would be to mostly separate boys and girls in classes. We could then do things for boys that are generally better for boys and do things for girls that are generally better for girls. There probably should be co-ed schools so boys and girls can still socialize during lunch and other breaks, just not during classes.

But some girls are like boys, and some boys are like girls in this regard. Gender differences fall on a spectrum.

No matter what we do some people will not have an ideal education. I think this will maximize the education that works for the most kids. The only way we can actually have an ideal education would be to have 1 teacher per student. That is not really practical.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#439

Post by klyrs »

wassenaar10 wrote: post #403
klyrs wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[baleeted]

I don't think you read my comment, which makes it clear that "Modern progressivism has apparently solved that issue already." was meant facetiously.

I read your comment. Sarcasm is an anti-pattern in written communication.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#440

Post by nsainsbury »

Reading this reminded me a lot of one of my all-time favourite essays "On the Wildness of Children" by Carol Black - http://carolblack.org/on-the-wildness-of-children

It's definitely influenced how we raise our kids - boys in general really seem to need to be active, exploring, and heavily engaged in physical activity otherwise they turn that energy towards destructive activities.

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