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Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

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Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#431
post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment that spawned this thread is here and suggests phone privileges can also be taken away by mistake in this system: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26227031

I know very little about the prison system, but surely the suspension of phone privileged cannot prevent an inmate from contacting his legal representation, right?

Probably not legally. Prisoners are required to be allowed "reasonable" access to their counsel. They might be able to suspend your ability to call your lawyer, as long as they don't stop you from writing them letters and meeting in person, for example. I'm not read on the case law so I don't know specifics, but they can't totally prevent you from meeting your lawyer without serious constitutional issues.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#432

When I wanted to have compiled [1] financials, PriceWaterhouseCoopers told me to pick a recognized accounting system, then change the company's business processes to match that. They said absolutely not to go the other way, to try to customize any software to match our business. I think about that every time I read about another government (or private!) company that wastes tens or hundreds of million of dollars (or e…

That's hard to do because all of those systems are intertwined. If you use the Montana DMV program, and you want people who get DUIs to have their driver's license suspended, now you have to use the Montana Penal System program. Except Montana's Penal System has a bunch of exceptions written into it for laws that can be either a misdemeanor or a felony, and they don't allow any time off for good behavior. So now are you going to adopt Montana's laws too? There's tax code stuff in there too, so I guess we're lumping in the Montana tax system as well.

I think the problem is that unlike our more notable branches, we don't hire experts in the field. I don't mean they're incompetent at technology, but that a problem like this really exists at the intersection of government and technology. We keep hiring general-purpose contractors to build things like this, and then we're shocked when it falls apart in the environment governments exist in.

We need companies that specialize in this intersection. Companies that can keep public sentiment in mind and build an architecture that's flexible in the places where society is. It's the same way that most of us in general purpose IT try to build systems that can adapt to changes in the IT landscape. Put it in Docker so we can run it on a cloud, on bare metal, on k8s and probably on whatever's next. Governments struggle to pivot like that due to funding (how do you argue for funding for features since you can't earn revenue?), and because a lot of it is legislated out of their control. Learning to read the public sentiment is just like us reading trends in a newsletter.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#433
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YAGNI just means that you don’t know how the laws are going to change. All the configurability you add is just going to make the system more expensive and even harder to change the day when the laws are changed, and it wasn’t anything you thought of. And no one is ever using all your nice switches.

Yes and no. It's a bit like saying "Oh, I didn't know it was going to rain - it was lovely and sunny outside when I wrote the code". A big (some might say forgotten) part of the procurement and development process is research - know your customer, know your market, know your niche. In this case, that includes - know how prisons work - know how the system will be administered - know how recent law changes might be han…

No, of course you have to take into account known factors, like sometimes it rains. And if it is difficult to add a new type of release schedule, it is not poor planning, it is a poorly designed system. When we don't know how requirements are going to change, we must not guess, we should instead design the systems so they are easy to change.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#434
post #429
post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what you mean by "pure-AI systems." I work in this field and have many times implemented a review in the loop, or a route for review. It's an old technique, predating computers. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_letter_mail

A "pure-AI system" is a fully-autonomous ML expert system. For example, a spam classifier. In these systems, humans are never brought into the loop at decision-making time — instead, the model makes a decision, acts, and then humans have to deal with the consequences of "dumb" actions (e.g. by looking through their spam folders for false positives) — acting later to reverse the model's action, rather than the model p…

> humans have to deal with the consequences of "dumb" actions (e.g. by looking through their spam folders for false positives)

Email programs generally have a mechanism for reviewing email and changing the classification. I think your "pure-AI" phrase describes a system that doesn't have any mechanism for reviewing and adjusting the machine's classification. The fact that a spam message winds up in your inbox sometimes is probably that low-confidence human-in-the-loop process we've been talking about. I'm sure that the system errs on the side of classifying spam as ham, because the reverse is much worse. Why have two different interfaces for reading emails, one for reading known-ham and one for reviewing suspected-spam, when you can combine the two seamlessly?

Perhaps you've confused bad user interface decisions for bad machine learning system decisions. I'd like to see some kind of likelihood-spam indicator (which the ML system undoubtedly reports) rather than a binary spam-or-not, but the interface designer chose to arbitrarily threshold. I think in this case you should blame the user interface designer for thinking that people are stupid and can't handle non-binary classifications. We're all hip to "they" these days.

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