Live data from Hacker News

Do You Love Me? [video]

youtube.com

431–440 of 478 posts

Re: Do You Love Me? [video]

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus "X is never quite what it seems"

X comes with subscription, microtransactions, ads, wants your personal data, and/or is the result of regulatory capture.

the troubling part: not at first.

Then when something is "normal" stuff is "added" and when people complain they are ridiculed by others who don't realize or don't care.

I think we should normalize a little common sense. You know, the golden rule.

If you would not snoop on other people, why should other people snoop on you (phone app, iot, car, whatever)

Re: Do You Love Me? [video]

#432

I am a huge fan of spartan-like no-bullshit brutalist approach towards their marketing/PR: - No studio setup, just their lab - No artificial lighting - No fucks given about hiding the mess - Robots going through surgery in the background - Song is classy af IMO - Can see the camera man - Can see the engineers/employees - Framing/cinematography isn't as polished (this is a feature, not a bug) - Chipped paint, beaten u…

You are the target audience for this marketing. It was made for you. This is recruitment marketing. The goal isn't to sell the robots, it to sell the experience of working on the robots so that they have basically every need on earth lusting to work there.

My first thought was, "it sure would be neat to work for BD".

Even though I'm pretty sure engineers have been driven to tears trying to get a robot to do the mashed potato. Worth it.

Nerd lust: confirmed.

Re: Do You Love Me? [video]

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can realize they're just large puppets. We've had dancing puppets like Walt Disney's Small World. This is hugely understating just how difficult it is for a biped/quadruped robot to move around in the world without continuously falling, getting stuck, etc. Like seriously, seriously underestimates it. Watch this video to see spot walk over some terrain that even people struggle with: https://www.youtube.com/watc…

> Watch this video to see spot walk over some terrain that even people struggle with: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7s1sr4JdlI Where's the terrain humans struggle with? At the most extreme it climbs a small mound of rocks and gets stuck. It's cool we can build something that can do that semi-autonomously but it's lightyears from being as capable as anything biological.

You and I are around different people! Yes, that pile of rocks isn't too big of a deal for young and agile people, but try to imagine the 10th percentile of people walking over that. Older, not as fit. That rock pile would be a struggle.

I don't disagree that it's still far away from a human in good shape, but there are certainly a significant percentage of people who wouldn't be able to walk over that, or would slip a few times while doing it.

That sort of terrain is also no joke if you have to traverse it for large stretches, even for athletic people. It's very similar to mildly rough mountaineering areas and that will wear you down quickly!

Re: Do You Love Me? [video]

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was born cynical and I'm proud of it, so apologies to Boston Dynamics and others, but these things will absolutely be used as war bots and automation surrogates once the time is ripe. Even so, yes, these robots are truly engineering marvels and I wholeheartedly applaud the team for their hard work! I just think that squinting the eyes slightly past the "search and rescue", the war applications of this kind of techn…

Do you know how much berry/fruit pickers get paid? or pizza delivery people? It will be a LONG time before it's more economical for a robot to do it I think

Good point. I did not know exactly how much fruit pickers make, I supposed it was not very much. According to Google, the California average is 24 k USD a year, 11.49 USD an hour.

However.

A human must rest after, say, 12 hours, but a robot can just keep going even at night, if the battery charging is swift and smart (e.g. hotswap battery). So a robot could work almost 24 h shifts instead of 12 h shifts. So we get a 2x multiplier here.

A robot can be made to work perhaps twice as fast somehow, maybe it just moves faster or has four arms or can carry more or reach higher faster or whatever. So let's add another 2x.

Now we're at 4x, a single robot doing the job of 4 workers. Now we're at ca. 46 USD an hour for the equivalent of the robot's work.

Would such a robot be hired for, say, 30 USD an hour?

Next, I'll put on an MBA hat (which I don't have) and just pull numbers ouf of thin air; GIGO warning is in effect. Real MBAs please excuse the amateur hour.

Assuming the robot rental shop can keep utilization at 80% and sell it non-stop for a month to orchards, this would be 0.8 * 30 * 24 * 30 = ca. 17000 USD a month for such a robot. Let's say they spend roughly 10% in repairs etc., that leaves about 15 k USD a month. If the robot costs 150 k USD, and it can do fruit picking for ca. 6 months in a year, the robot has paid for itself after ca. two years.

My point was that the fruit orchard pays 30 USD instead of 46 USD for the "same" job (i.e. they get 35% off labor costs).

Also, a robot rental shop in this model actually starts to make profit per robot after two years. This is not such a long time, and the robots might actually become tools like tractors or harvesters are, with similar ownership arrangements, e.g. a farm co-op owns the robots and distributes to members for cheap hourly price.

Although there were many assumptions regarding the numbers, I would not quite agree on robots taking a long time to become economical. Also, the savings at the orchard side would be seen immediately, creating robot demand on that side.

Edit: typo and formatting

Re: Do You Love Me? [video]

#435
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Automating everything away isn't cynicism. It's what some of us want.

Who will hire you to do anything once their needs have been automated?

If we can provide adequate resources to everyone without anyone doing any work, it would make sense to switch to an economy wherein we provide adequate resources to everyone without requiring them to work.

Capitalism is a very effective economic system when having goods depends on enticing people to produce them. It's not a system that sticks around once goods and services become fully decoupled from labor.

Re: Do You Love Me? [video]

#436

Anyone have any resources to read on how these things work?

Scott Kuindersma shared some high level details of how they do some of the stuff they have done in their demos in this talk https://youtu.be/EGABAx52GKI

He doesn’t say exactly how they have done things on the low-level, but there is enough to go out digging into what he and other people have published.

Re: Do You Love Me? [video]

#437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would have specified target trajectories. Then a solver tries to make that happen.

That answers the recording part, but is this the abstraction the programers use? Setting trajectories manually would be hard to do while keeping them balanced, especially with moves involving legs.

A trajectory is a series of time-stamped poses, specified in world coordinates. As to where they come from, yes you need tooling to keep from going crazy. At Anki, they used animation industry tools, so I am told.

The solver handles the balance part in real time, using current sensor input.

Re: Do You Love Me? [video]

#438

So what's the main barrier to using these industrially? Is it reliability? Did this video a zillion takes? Is it manufacturing? Maybe it's hard to scale them up? Is it battery life? Maybe it can power itself for just a few minutes? Is it object manipulation or sensing/world understanding? Maybe it can't apply the right forces to a soft thing or a flexible thing or know what it can step on vs over or what will move or…

> Did this video a zillion takes?

Definitely quite a lot - take a look at the floor underneath some of them, shiny patches worn out by constant beatings I guess.

Re: Do You Love Me? [video]

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Watch this video to see spot walk over some terrain that even people struggle with: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7s1sr4JdlI Where's the terrain humans struggle with? At the most extreme it climbs a small mound of rocks and gets stuck. It's cool we can build something that can do that semi-autonomously but it's lightyears from being as capable as anything biological.

You and I are around different people! Yes, that pile of rocks isn't too big of a deal for young and agile people, but try to imagine the 10th percentile of people walking over that. Older, not as fit. That rock pile would be a struggle. I don't disagree that it's still far away from a human in good shape, but there are certainly a significant percentage of people who wouldn't be able to walk over that, or would slip…

Comparing the best robot to the worst human isn't very interesting.
Post reply on HN