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Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

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Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#431

Post by tehjoker »

javert wrote: post #421
tehjoker wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone that likes the New Deal should thank the union organizers and socialists that literally had to fight police in the streets to force the hand of the state. A large enough faction of the capitalists back then agreed to reforms because they feared things were going the way of revolution. In the 1930s, the 1917 revolution in Russia was a recent memory that scared the piss out of them. Bezos would like to continu…

Marxism rewards the vicious and punishes the virtuous. It's not in the interest of virtuous people to have Marxism. It's in their interest to have freedom, which implies capitalism.

This is completely wrong. Marxism is presented as "scientific socialism" compared with former idealist versions that proliferated in the 1800s. While you can disagree with his conclusions, Marx presents a theory of class society, of the development of productive forces, and how these interact to advance the political forms of society which ends in revolution when the old structures and the new engines of society clash. He doesn't really go deeply into what "socialism" would look like, only that the clash between the bourgeoisie and the proletariat, where the proletariat both massively outnumber the bourgeoisie and do all the work for survival wages presents a contradiction that will be resolved.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#432

Post by a1369209993 »

adamsea wrote: post #411
a1369209993 wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm comfortable assuming intent when someone discharges a kinetic weapon at a occupied vehicle. If the car was parked and they assumed it was unoccupied you might have a point. I wouldn't have any trouble believing there were more attempted murders on the part of the anti-union side, or that this example happened differently than described, but what was described was clearly a (successful) attempt to kill someone.

> discharges a kinetic weapon ... Is that the same as shooting a gun? ; )

Guns are a specific type of kinetic weapon, yes. So are eg trebuchets or de-oribited asteroids.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#433

Post by dang »

wnevets wrote: post #78

Whenever unions are mentioned on HN there always seems to be a coordinated effort to attack them in the comments, very interesting.

There is lots of support for unions in HN comments. It may even be the majority position by a slight margin. (Police unions are an inverted special case right now.)

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Of course it's not a coordinated effort, any more than the pro-union comments are coordinated. This is just a classic issue on which the community is divided. The temptation to see opposing views as inauthentic and manipulated is somehow irresistible to most people on the internet. I just wrote about this in a completely different context, but the same argument applies: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24356300.

This is why we have this site guideline: "Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#434

Post by javert »

tehjoker wrote: post #431
javert wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marxism rewards the vicious and punishes the virtuous. It's not in the interest of virtuous people to have Marxism. It's in their interest to have freedom, which implies capitalism.

This is completely wrong. Marxism is presented as "scientific socialism" compared with former idealist versions that proliferated in the 1800s. While you can disagree with his conclusions, Marx presents a theory of class society, of the development of productive forces, and how these interact to advance the political forms of society which ends in revolution when the old structures and the new engines of society clas…

Your post side-steps the issue I raised.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#435

Post by kergonath »

PeterisP wrote: post #357
kergonath wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which actual country is forced unionisation a thing? It sounds more like stupid local laws than a flaw in the concept of trade unions.

Unions can (and, if they're strong and it's not prohibited, often do) make collective agreements with the employer that mandate that the employer will not be permitted to employ non-union workers for these jobs. In a "closed union shop" you'd be required to join the union when you're hired, and if you would not join or if you would get kicked out of the union, the employer would have to fire you. This is pretty much…

Yeah, stupid laws then. Considering whether someone is in a union or not before hiring them is discriminating and ought to be illegal. Thanks for the background.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#436

Post by adamsea »

a1369209993 wrote: post #432
adamsea wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> discharges a kinetic weapon ... Is that the same as shooting a gun? ; )

Guns are a specific type of kinetic weapon, yes. So are eg trebuchets or de-oribited asteroids.

For sure :). I understand that. I was gently teasing and pointing out that the language you used obscured (as there were no trebuchets, de orbiting asteroids, etc, involved) rather than clarifies.

“Shooting a gun”, or “shooting guns or beanbag rounds, etc”, or whatever is specific and relevant to the topic clarifies thought and improves our thought. The opposite approach occluded and damages our thought.

And since language is how we discuss politics, we need clear language in order to truthfully and honestly discuss politics.

:-)

To quote Orwell from Politics and the English Language:

https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwel...

“ Modern English, especially written English, is full of bad habits which spread by imitation and which can be avoided if one is willing to take the necessary trouble. If one gets rid of these habits one can think more clearly, and to think clearly is a necessary first step toward political regeneration: so that the fight against bad English is not frivolous and is not the exclusive concern of professional writers.”

“ Operators, or verbal false limbs. These save the trouble of picking out appropriate verbs and nouns, and at the same time pad each sentence with extra syllables which give it an appearance of symmetry. Characteristic phrases are: render inoperative, militate against, prove unacceptable, make contact with, be subject to, give rise to, give grounds for, have the effect of, play a leading part (role) in, make itself felt, take effect, exhibit a tendency to, serve the purpose of, etc. etc. The keynote is the elimination of simple verbs. Instead of being a single word, such as break, stop, spoil, mend, kill, a verb becomes a phrase, made up of a noun or adjective tacked on to some general-purposes verb such as prove, serve, form, play, render. In addition, the passive voice is wherever possible used in preference to the active, and noun constructions are used instead of gerunds (by examination of instead of by examining).”

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#437

Post by MiroF »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #285
shadowgovt wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, apparently, the case that creating an environment where a reasonable person would feel surveilled is in violation of the law. Concrete things that are highlighted as out-of-bounds: 1) Putting a dummy security camera in a breakroom 2) Hiring someone to sit in a car in the company parking lot and pretend to talk into a phone every time someone goes to their car Given that wide constraint, I can definitely see ho…

Are we talking about being unethical or illegal? I think putting even a real camera in breakout room is legal in almost all of the world. If the second story is correct, which I doubt, even that could be legal. Attendance system is used by many companies with report being sent to manager.

I agree. Installing an audio equipped device would be illegal on the other hand.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#438

Post by wnevets »

dang wrote: post #433
wnevets wrote: post #78

Whenever unions are mentioned on HN there always seems to be a coordinated effort to attack them in the comments, very interesting.

There is lots of support for unions in HN comments. It may even be the majority position by a slight margin. (Police unions are an inverted special case right now.) https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... Of course it's not a coordinated effort, any more than the pro-union comments are coordinated. This is just a classic issue on which the community is divided. The temptation to see opposing v…

After post has been out for a while there probably is a majority in support. However every single time I read the comments of these kind of threads the first several highly upvoted comments are almost always anti-union. Its not until the post has been on the front page for a while before the comments begin to turn.

Do I have sciencily evidence? Nope. Could it be a confirmation bias or just a coincidence? Sure. However it seems to happen a lot.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#439

Post by a1369209993 »

adamsea wrote: post #436
a1369209993 wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guns are a specific type of kinetic weapon, yes. So are eg trebuchets or de-oribited asteroids.

For sure :). I understand that. I was gently teasing and pointing out that the language you used obscured (as there were no trebuchets, de orbiting asteroids, etc, involved) rather than clarifies. “Shooting a gun”, or “shooting guns or beanbag rounds, etc”, or whatever is specific and relevant to the topic clarifies thought and improves our thought. The opposite approach occluded and damages our thought. And since la…

> pointing out that the language you used obscured (as there were no trebuchets, de orbiting asteroids, etc, involved) rather than clarifies.

And I was pointing that dropping a large rock on someone is a attempt to kill them. I don't particularly care about it happening to be politically motivated.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#440

Post by tallgiraffe »

whoisjuan wrote: post #235

This is just proof that not everyone is following the same narrative that you’re personally following or understands reality the same way you do. It’s beyond me how that job post would make sense to anyone besides someone who is disconnected from the usual contending rhetorics Amazon is involved in. Nobody raised a flag on how that would look like for them? You gotta be pretty oblivious to read that and say “yeah tha…

"This just proof that not everyone is following the same narrative that you’re personally following." Your post is a perfect recursive function.
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