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The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

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Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#431

Post by goto11 »

drKarl wrote: post #402
xtracto wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an atheist I love reading these passages.. it is amazing how people in this day and age are trying to find "meanings" from a book full of the stories of one person... who lived 2000+ years ago.. imagine if someone tried to find meaning in Beckhams biography 2000 years from now...

There's actually not real evidence that Jesus even existed. The "official" gospels were chosen in the council of Nicaea in the year 325. There were lots of other gospels wildly contradicting each other, which were arbitrarily dismissed. Even the chosen gospels contradict each other. The writers of the gospels were born between 50 and more than 100 years after the alleged story they're telling. No roman or jew histori…

The gospels were not chosen at Nicea. That myth originates from the novel The DaVinci Code. The book is fiction by the way.

You are espousing the Jesus Myth theory. That is a fringe theory which have generally been rejected by historians. The similarities with Amon etc. are pretty superficial except for the universal resurrection theme. Don't believe the websites with long lists of unsourced parallels.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#432

Post by TbobbyZ »

jacurtis wrote: post #316
sturgill wrote: post #107

Can you imagine the criticism if the investment arm was losing money? The Church does amazing work providing resources during crises. I’ve personally cut trees off of people’s houses with chainsaws provided by the Church and given buckets of sanitation supplies when hurricanes swept through Florida. There is always a tension in “what do you spend now and what do you invest for later” but I honesty feel like the Churc…

One part that was left out of the WSJ article but was released by the whistleblower was the source of these funds. When members asked to donate money to charity, the church said they would happily donate it on behalf of the members. It was then taken from the members and funneled into this investment fund instead of redirected to charity (as they promised). The church claims that since they are a non-profit that they…

It actually says at the bottom: "Though reasonable efforts will be made to use donations as designated, all donations become the Church's property and will be used at the Church's sole discretion to further the Church's overall mission."

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#433

Post by cheez »

alanwreath wrote: post #327
jacurtis wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One part that was left out of the WSJ article but was released by the whistleblower was the source of these funds. When members asked to donate money to charity, the church said they would happily donate it on behalf of the members. It was then taken from the members and funneled into this investment fund instead of redirected to charity (as they promised). The church claims that since they are a non-profit that they…

If you want your assistance to go straight to those who need it - then walk right to that person and give it to them. If you want someone who is experienced in making said assistance stretch further than just to that one family, ask someone experienced. Complaining seems like you don't trust the person to whom you just put in charge of using your donation wisely. So why was the donation made again? Obviously one woul…

> If you want your assistance to go straight to those who need it - then walk right to that person and give it to them

Meanwhile, people want grand government projects to "help the middle class" but won't give Yang's UBI a shot.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#434

Post by BubRoss »

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #336
tomrod wrote: post #9

That is just what is uncovered in the investment market with one subsidiary. They also own 2% of Florida[0], huge land tracts in Argentina, Oklahoma and elsewhere, and attractive urban real estate in most major metropolises including apartment complexes in PA. They centralize donation collection of tithes and good will offerings such that about 8% stays back at congregations (based on personal observation as the fina…

Just a note on leaving the church: when you leave you leave all the people you have known all your life. Since you spend so much time in church activities fellow members become your extended family. When you leave you understand that the only reason you had contact with your extended family is because of the church. You become the lone man out. It's extremely hard to rebuild relationships outside the church. I don't…

Organized religion is a great way to sell people their own family and community back to them.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#435

Post by pc2g4d »

jacurtis wrote: post #332
bensonn wrote: post #239

Is 100 billion really that much? The church has 16 million members. That is about $6,000 per member. The church has had 200 years of tithing and compound interest to get to this point. If used as an endowment to support 16 million people in 170+ countries that doesn't seem too crazy. A single human (not mentioning any names) having 100 billion seems crazy.

This isn't that the church has $100 billion dollars. They actually are estimated to be worth more than Apple in real estate and cash. This $100B is one single fund that is a "secret" fund. It was collected by the church members donating to charity, but asking the church to allocate the funds. So this is in addition to all the other offerings a member is required to make (10% of pre-tax gross income). So the church to…

"kept it for themselves"---it still belongs to the church.

I thought everybody assumed, since the church so frequently taught its members about prudent financial management, that the church itself was doing the same thing.

I've left the church, I have many criticisms of it, but I really don't have a problem with an organization taking the long view and accumulating a large enough reserve to survive on the interest. It's the same approach universities and other large nonprofits use. And it's not like it's particularly neglecting its present-day mission either. Probably is too stingy, though (e.g. using volunteers to clean buildings.)

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#436

Post by jki275 »

drKarl wrote: post #402
xtracto wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an atheist I love reading these passages.. it is amazing how people in this day and age are trying to find "meanings" from a book full of the stories of one person... who lived 2000+ years ago.. imagine if someone tried to find meaning in Beckhams biography 2000 years from now...

There's actually not real evidence that Jesus even existed. The "official" gospels were chosen in the council of Nicaea in the year 325. There were lots of other gospels wildly contradicting each other, which were arbitrarily dismissed. Even the chosen gospels contradict each other. The writers of the gospels were born between 50 and more than 100 years after the alleged story they're telling. No roman or jew histori…

The writers of the gospels were Jesus’ contemporaries.

And I guess you’ve never heard of Josephus? He’s only the most well known Jewish historian since Moses.

Jesus most certainly lived, no serious scholar of history claims otherwise.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#437

Post by jki275 »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #305
x1oqw wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always surprises me that wealthy churches pretend to take Christ seriously, when Jesus was not very fond of amassing money. I get why the churches do it (of course they don't believe in Christ), but why do the exploited masses believe them?

Christians in general all denounce socialism --even it seems democratic socialism. Christ taught: Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, heal the sick, give all you have to those in need then come follow me, else there's no path to heaven if you're a shallow rich person. I'm no expert on Marxism, but I think there's quite a bit of crossover in ideologies. But the point of my argument is most church's don't practice what…

Jesus taught that we should do that.

He did not teach that the government should force everyone to do that.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#438

Post by NotSammyHagar »

tomc1985 wrote: post #246
sturgill wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Find me the executive team of a multimillion person company with hundreds of billions of assets making the living stipend of the (relatively few) ecclesiastical leaders of the Church and your argument will have more weight. IIRC, the living stipend for members of the Twelve was around $100k? Or less than the salary of an intern at Google...

Do you forget that $100k is a lot of money in most places? > Or less than the salary of an intern at Google... It'd be remarkable if their stipend was less than the salary of an intern at nearly any other company. Google is a huge exception

Every first tier software company pays their interns pro-rated 100k+ or they won't get interns. I worked in a 5 year old "startup"/pre-ipo company in seattle with 200 employees and we paid interns 100k and college grads in their first job over 130k annually (not giving the exact amount to preserve a little anonymity). I'm sure faangs give those people 50k of real-value stock per year at least.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#439

Post by NotSammyHagar »

godelski wrote: post #253
tomrod wrote: post #9

That is just what is uncovered in the investment market with one subsidiary. They also own 2% of Florida[0], huge land tracts in Argentina, Oklahoma and elsewhere, and attractive urban real estate in most major metropolises including apartment complexes in PA. They centralize donation collection of tithes and good will offerings such that about 8% stays back at congregations (based on personal observation as the fina…

> For the record I left several years ago, but have many family members still heavily involved. It's an organization which does not allow you to leave with your dignity intact. A lot of people are trying to counter this. As an ex-Mormon I do want to share my experience. Not for the people of Hacker News, but because I know this issue is hard to talk about and I want others to know that they aren't alone. I first off,…

Thanks for sharing. I hope you find this cathartic and can find connection to people in your new life. I have to think there must be millions of people silently suffering who left various groups like this, be they religions or now political party / belief-systems.

Re: The vast but little-known fund of the Mormon Church

#440

Post by JshWright »

jboggan wrote: post #405
tomrod wrote: post #9

That is just what is uncovered in the investment market with one subsidiary. They also own 2% of Florida[0], huge land tracts in Argentina, Oklahoma and elsewhere, and attractive urban real estate in most major metropolises including apartment complexes in PA. They centralize donation collection of tithes and good will offerings such that about 8% stays back at congregations (based on personal observation as the fina…

I don't fully agree with this characterization. My girlfriend and her brother have left the church and there seems to be zero love lost in the family or their friend group that they grew up with. I know that this does happen to many people but it is not a uniform experience.

The phrase "no love lost" typically means that there is a great dislike or hatred between the two parties. From the context it seems like you're saying the opposite of that?
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