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Wacom tablets track every app you open

robertheaton.com

431–440 of 469 posts

Re: Wacom tablets track every app you open

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. So your point is that you don't trust Wacom. So why are you plugging their device into your USB port, logging in to your computer, and letting it operate your computer for you?

Negative, sir. Actually, I was responding to the points you had made. I still trust his investigation and I find it to be significant even if he didn't address all the concerns you raised (which are outside of the area of software engineering). He doesn't need to address outside issues (like the physical safety of the device) to validate his findings or concerns. Still, since you invited, I'll talk more about my own…

This investigation was started because the original author was installing the drivers, and was presented with a legal agreement explaining that Wacom wanted to collect some data.

So they are being up front about it, right? I mean, maybe not in layperson-friendly language, but in compliance with regulations and under the guidance, presumably of their legal team.

In the box alongside the tablet, there was also probably a little booklet full of safety notices, warranty indemnifications, compliance statements, and arbitration assertions about the fitness for purpose of the hardware itself - also not written in layperson-friendly language. But the reaction on seeing that was... well, probably to toss it aside and go ahead and plug in the device, not to immediately assume that because the company presented a bunch of dense legalese, they might be trying to get away with something.

You said yourself: you don't trust Wacom not to sell the data to a data broker when presented with enough cash. But all sorts of Wacom business processes had to comply with regulations, be carried out diligently and ethically, and be generally trustworthy for Wacom to have produced an electronic device that you can safely plug into your computer. So I'm just trying to get you to consider:

What is it about their data processing that leads you to all of a sudden question their corporate ethics, diligence, compliance and trustworthiness?

Re: Wacom tablets track every app you open

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Negative, sir. Actually, I was responding to the points you had made. I still trust his investigation and I find it to be significant even if he didn't address all the concerns you raised (which are outside of the area of software engineering). He doesn't need to address outside issues (like the physical safety of the device) to validate his findings or concerns. Still, since you invited, I'll talk more about my own…

This investigation was started because the original author was installing the drivers, and was presented with a legal agreement explaining that Wacom wanted to collect some data. So they are being up front about it, right? I mean, maybe not in layperson-friendly language, but in compliance with regulations and under the guidance, presumably of their legal team. In the box alongside the tablet, there was also probably…

> This is all just another example software devs' parochial belief that because software is eating the world, any problem in software is terrible, while ignoring the whole stack of hardware in meatspace that supports the software in the first place.

Actually, I'm interested in exploring more of your own view here. You seemed to take exception that he limited his findings to his apparent area of expertise and interest (software engineering, security/privacy). Is that still the case, or have your views evolved on this issue?

> What is it about their data processing that leads you to all of a sudden question their corporate ethics, diligence, compliance and trustworthiness?

Your questions for me are really best answered by the author:

1. Apparently, it defied a reasonable expectation that the purchase of such a minor peripheral of this type would lead to the manufacturer's attempt to obtain a regular stream of what applications he launched on his PC (and at what time, and from what partially masked IP address). He was a smart cookie. His tip-off was that it somehow needed a privacy policy. And he had the smarts to launch his own technical investigation.

2. When he finally saw what they were pulling from his PC, once again, he was shocked, because that seemed to conflict with his own understanding of what Wacom said they were doing. He hadn't just casually scrolled through the privacy notice. It looks like he read it quite carefully.

I suspect this might be what he took issue with:

> Information Automatically Collected – Google Analytics When You use the Tablet Driver, certain information as described below may be automatically collected for purposes such as improvement of the Tablet Driver, troubleshooting bugs, providing the functions of the Tablet Driver, managing the services and improving overall performance of the Tablet Driver. Such information includes aggregate usage data, technical session information and information about Your hardware device.

No, I'm not interested in pulling in more sections of text and going back-and-forth in a game of Internet Lawyer. Someone else here might be a more willing partner.

> So they are being up front about it, right?

That's the issue. Was Wacom clear and transparent? Or did Wacom manage to generate a body of text which obfuscates what they are actually doing while still maintaining legal compliance? Or did they overreach? As it turns out, the FTC has a special page to submit complaints regarding privacy policies. I imagine that corporate privacy policies are turning into a hot topic for the FTC right now. I guess there's enough interest here, so I'll go ahead and submit this issue to the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) and see if they want to help Wacom figure out the answer to your question.

Beyond that, you have some interesting questions about trust. Not my area of expertise, but I'll take a crack at it. Your boss might say that you're someone he trusts. He might give you authority over an application which processes millions or billions in yearly revenue. But he wouldn't trust you to take care of his kids for a week. Trust is not binary (yes/no), and it is not universal (trust in area X must equal overall trust or trust in area Y). That's as much as I've got. If you've got followup questions about trust, they might be better directed towards an online resource which focuses on that issue.

Hope this helps.

Re: Wacom tablets track every app you open

#433

On Linux you'd be using the community-maintained drivers[0], so I assume this wouldn't be a problem (correct me if I'm wrong). But as far as I can tell, there's not equivalent Open Wacom drivers for Windows. People with more Windows knowledge than me: any thoughts on why? Is it just that someone using Windows probably doesn't care about Open drivers, so the demand isn't there? Or is there something about Windows that…

Here is an open source driver that has been made that supports Wacom and Huion tablets https://github.com/hawku/TabletDriver These were made to reduce input latency to increase performance in a rhythm game called "osu!"

Now, if only someone could make Wacom drivers that make the Wacom touch functionality interface better with Photoshop and friends, rather than just handing keyboard shortcuts to them. Somehow, that's the best Wacom has managed to do, which makes those features effectively unusable in the very apps those tablets are most commonly used...

Re: Wacom tablets track every app you open

#434

FWIW that isn’t a unique identifier for the author, it’s for Wacom’s GA account. I didn’t see any meaningful identifier being sent. Of course the set of most opened apps and your IP are probably enough to identify you. That said, yep, it seems lame they don’t disclose this tracking. I can understand why they’d want to know what apps their device pairs most often with, but tracking all app opens seems aggressive, but…

The cid parameter (the one that's censored) is a unique identifier for the author.

Re: Wacom tablets track every app you open

#435
post #223

It looks like everything in tech got poisoned, smart TVs taking screenshots, web apps tracking and matching user clicks, smartphones tracking locations realtime and who knows what else, desktop apps monitoring other apps and peripherals, creepy companies building profiles on everyone, health institutions selling data of their users... I want out, I didn't get into this field, keeping myself up-to-date and super capab…

I wanted to add on the list of privacy invading examples. It's better I make the counter claim. The data collected has massive potential to improve medical research. Being able to validate database wide experiments on hundreds of millions of people at once is pretty incredible. There's likely to be a decade of insights to be found in this rapidly filling digital ocean of information. In several years the clamour to g…

I'm only one voice, but for my part, I am willing to forego the advancements that may come to medicine via this route.

The societal costs of surveillance capitalism are only just starting to appear, and it's going to get so much worse before it gets better.

And it's not all bad, but there's no preserving the little bit of good without canning the tons of bad.

Re: Wacom tablets track every app you open

#436
post #223

It looks like everything in tech got poisoned, smart TVs taking screenshots, web apps tracking and matching user clicks, smartphones tracking locations realtime and who knows what else, desktop apps monitoring other apps and peripherals, creepy companies building profiles on everyone, health institutions selling data of their users... I want out, I didn't get into this field, keeping myself up-to-date and super capab…

s/limited lifespan feel powerful and rich/limited lifespan powerful and rich/

It's a whole attitude. They're aware of their limited lifespan and intend to either buy their way into more and better lifespan (if possible), but in any event become actually powerful and rich.

At least on a certain scale, they're not wrong. It does work.

This is not to say, however, that they're not slugs deserving of a good salting.

Re: Wacom tablets track every app you open

#437
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"just to make somebody with a limited lifespan feel powerful and rich." Wow that last sentence really puts things into perspective. How can be reverse course and throw a wrench in the system? We are the makers, we should be able to wrestle back control and do it democratically and get politicians on our side to legislate this ad industry into the ground.

First step would be to kill advertising-based models. Get them banned. Because it's the advertising industry's race to the bottom that poisons everything, and fuels the creation of surveillance infrastructure. With ad-related snooping gone, it will be much easier to rein in the remaining few players who misuse data in pursuit of optimizing their business models. (And yes, I know ads enable a lot of free content on-li…

The entire targeted ad model has to die.

As in, being a beneficent party of a targeted ad campaign becomes a presumption of criminal activity.

We have to make the advertisers culpable for the behavior of the companies serving up their ads.

Re: Wacom tablets track every app you open

#438
post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First step would be to kill advertising-based models. Get them banned. Because it's the advertising industry's race to the bottom that poisons everything, and fuels the creation of surveillance infrastructure. With ad-related snooping gone, it will be much easier to rein in the remaining few players who misuse data in pursuit of optimizing their business models. (And yes, I know ads enable a lot of free content on-li…

There was a time before now where advertising was effective and didnt track you - it was the advent of targeted advertisement which really killed things off. Can we go back to the days where an advert was was just an image and a hyperlink? Where advertisement paid by the pixel and location on the website? Where JavaScript was unused unless in some rare and warranted cases? I still believe the web can be a free and op…

There are two troubles:

1. The uplift of targeted advertising is unbelievable until you see the actual statistics. It's like slowly sipping a cup of coffee to wake up versus waking up to snort a line of crack.

2. Advertisers were abused and defrauded by adtech. Which has inspired all kinds of surveillance hellscape because the advertisers finally caught wise and have renegotiated to pay for actual performance only -- not clicks -- actually closed sales. But adtech wants paid if you do your research online, respond to an ad online, and then buy in store. And a whole lot of adtech now allows for that. Attributing an in-store purchase with no customer interaction to a prior web session by that same party.

The benefit of those two factors to the advertisers is such that we can't have a serious discussion about this shit going away without a law which assigns criminal penalties for being a beneficiary of the scheme.

Re: Wacom tablets track every app you open

#439
post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ads enabling free online content is a bit of a glazier's fallacy. Yes, when ads are an option most content producers will be funded by ads. it's simple to implement and does not require end user consent but as soon as the degenerate strategy is removed new strategies become viable such as micro-payments.

I think the potential of micro-payments was never reached because transactions are currently too large, and uni-directional. If we could process payments of $0.01, it would create a culture were you are actually willing to pay for content. Also, if you make a insightful comment, a product review, or even a upvote, you should receive some credits to spend back on consuming content. Doesn't have to be blockchain, it wo…

What we actually need in a practical sense is Kindle Unlimited but for web content.

And furthermore it could be a plurality of those kinds of providers aggregating content.

Deploy single-sign-on schemes, and websites might participate in a plurality of programs from different vendors.

But at the end of the day, you'd pay one or two "providers" a monthly sub, they pool the funds, take their cut, and do prorata distribution of the pool based on views, eyeball time, popularity of content, lots of ways.

No need to perform microtransactions from a banking perspective. You're going to eat $20 of web content this month, and so will lots of others. And then those views can participate in the pool and get paid monthly or something.

Re: Wacom tablets track every app you open

#440
post #223

It looks like everything in tech got poisoned, smart TVs taking screenshots, web apps tracking and matching user clicks, smartphones tracking locations realtime and who knows what else, desktop apps monitoring other apps and peripherals, creepy companies building profiles on everyone, health institutions selling data of their users... I want out, I didn't get into this field, keeping myself up-to-date and super capab…

Don't forget your employer selling your paycheck records, FFS.

The Work Number's entire sales pitch is... "We'll accept the data from you for free. You can give our our number and website to anyone who calls into your HR looking for employment reference, employment verification, etc. We'll field those calls for you."

They don't pay for the paystub data. The employers give it to them.

Although it's an invasion of privacy, to be sure, it actually does have some benefits for the employee.

In places outside San Fran, where people actually get conforming mortgages, having your data in The Work Number's database automates and cuts out the employment & income verification so that you don't have to track down records and submit manually and can potentially skip multiple must-connect phone calls between the lender and employer.

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