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Almost one in five men admits to having no close friends, a survey has found

thetimes.co.uk

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Re: Almost one in five men admits to having no close friends, a survey has found

#431

Post by subjectsigma »

krapp wrote: post #403
ancarda wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's mostly due to the phrase "toxic masculinity"; it's far too easy to misunderstand it as "masculinity is toxic" - and it doesn't help when someone asks for examples; stuff like stoicism and strength can come up. These aren't toxic. I've also spoken to people who actually believe independence (and wanting to be independent) is toxic. As this is mostly a branding problem, I want to say I recently came across…

It isn't really a branding problem. "Toxic masculinity" consists of an adjective and a noun - the former modifying the latter and therefore describing a trait which applies to a subset of the latter. It's common English. A "red apple" isn't easy to misunderstand as "all apples are red." A "hot plate" doesn't imply all plates are always hot. People who misunderstand this phrase refuse to do so even when the proper def…

It is most certainly a branding problem. Most men hate the term 'toxic masculinity' and react poorly to it because it usually comes along with obscene generalizations about how men (all of them) are doing everything wrong and must fix themselves. Which especially makes men mad if they're discussing some close-to-home topics, like male suicide or loneliness. In that context, even though it's probably not victim-blaming and done in good faith, such comments can really come off as accusatory.

Does this sound familiar to you?

Re: Almost one in five men admits to having no close friends, a survey has found

#432

Post by intrasight »

CapricornNoble wrote: post #406
intrasight wrote: post #149

Here's an easy solution guys - make friends with more women. A couple years ago my wife asked for a divorce (we are still married but separated). It was very much a wake up call that I was very dependent upon her emotionally and I had neglected my other friendships. I did two things. I invested myself in some old friends from high school and college, but as none of them are living in my city, I realized that I really…

>>>I think guy friendships are harder because of social expectations of of what a male friendship is - especially if like me you don't enjoy drinking or spectator sports. What kind of men have you tried to socialize with that you feel "male friendship" largely = drinking and sports? I don't drink, and I hate sports. Most of the dudes I know are on the same wavelength, and I don't think they were that hard to find. Th…

>Most of the dudes I know are on the same wavelength

Not so much here. Perhaps is because I'm in Pittsburgh. I should move to Seattle ;)

Re: Almost one in five men admits to having no close friends, a survey has found

#433

Post by intrasight »

bradlys wrote: post #341
intrasight wrote: post #149

Here's an easy solution guys - make friends with more women. A couple years ago my wife asked for a divorce (we are still married but separated). It was very much a wake up call that I was very dependent upon her emotionally and I had neglected my other friendships. I did two things. I invested myself in some old friends from high school and college, but as none of them are living in my city, I realized that I really…

> Here's an easy solution guys - make friends with more women I'm male. And I'm going to say that most of the women I know would prefer you didn't offer this advice. Women frequently do a ton of emotional labor for men and receive little back. There's already quite a bit of imbalance. Many men rely on the women in their life for support rather than the men. Most women I know do enjoy their male friends but still wish…

That is an interesting point. I know that in my case I give as much as I take emotionally - in fact I think I give more.

Re: Almost one in five men admits to having no close friends, a survey has found

#434

Post by throwaway66920 »

pb7 wrote: post #375
throwaway66920 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not that significant though. For every 4 men with no best friend there are 3 women in the same position. If being a man is so difficult, this is a small part of it relative to being a woman; and I would wager that women do better here simply because they put in more effort.

Do you also dismiss the assertion that women make 75% of the wage men do solely because men put in more effort? By your own words, this should also not be significant but many people would argue the opposite.

That... isn’t true. Men are not x% more productive across the board, nor do they put in y% more effort across the board.

If you disagree with the premise that women put more effort into social relationships be my guest. But there’s another aspect at play here whereby your friends are largely chosen by you whereas your salary is chosen for you. They’re not the same.

Re: Almost one in five men admits to having no close friends, a survey has found

#435

Post by throwaway66920 »

daenz wrote: post #175
throwaway66920 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not that significant though. For every 4 men with no best friend there are 3 women in the same position. If being a man is so difficult, this is a small part of it relative to being a woman; and I would wager that women do better here simply because they put in more effort.

Acknowledging a real problem facing men is not the same as claiming "being a man is so difficult," and you immediately jumping to that conclusion makes me question your motives.

I don’t know what ulterior motives I could have in pointing out that something is not a man problem but a people problem.

Re: Almost one in five men admits to having no close friends, a survey has found

#436

Post by hutzlibu »

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #428
hutzlibu wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered moving to a different place? But yes, when you are also physically challenged, that is even more hard.

I've been giving it a serous thought lately, if I cannot break out this loop then I guess there's no other choice.

Don't move out of desperation, though, with no clear head. Moving costs energy (and money) as well. So be sure, that the new place is a better fit for you.

On the other hand .. do not overthink it. If you find a new place and it feels good - do it.

I moved this year with my pregnant wife from hell to maybe not paradiese, but pretty close, compared to the last place. It was a very sudden decision, quite close to birth and then action, action, action.

But it was worth it, staying in the safe, but miserable comfort we had there .. it would have been misery. Now I enjoy ever day running woth my baby through the forest...

Re: Almost one in five men admits to having no close friends, a survey has found

#437

Post by flax »

Article is behind a paywall, so I wonder if it addresses what portion of these men find this to be a problem. I have never had close friends other than whoever was my significant other at the time. This is more than sufficient for me, and I don't think it's unhealthy at all. Some people just aren't social.

Re: Almost one in five men admits to having no close friends, a survey has found

#438

Post by jackbravo »

garmaine wrote: post #238
omginternets wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He is on a self-professed quest to cure loneliness It seemed to me that he was on a quest to cure his loneliness. Point is: It's interesting (perhaps even revealing) that you read it differently. If it's not a problem, then it's not a problem. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

If so, I misread it. But going back I still can't see that interpretation. > The lofty goal of the startup was to "cure loneliness" but I never told the users that. And then he talks about building features for users to take their conversations offline. I mean maybe it was all for himself, but it seems like the goal was to get users to build long-lasting relationships. Which is commendable, and I commend him for it.…

With his ending I also implied it was to cure his loneliness:

> If I were lonely today, I would say...

Re: Almost one in five men admits to having no close friends, a survey has found

#439

Post by intrasight »

chousuke wrote: post #260
intrasight wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was of the type that didn't put myself out there. Certainly I had to get over that first. I have male friends who are lonely, and I keep saying that you do need to get outside your comfort zone.

I hear that lots but it always leaves me wondering, what is the thing that actually gets you to do it? If the solution were that easy, there wouldn't be a problem.

Putting yourself out there isn't easy - at least not at first. Build confidence in small steps.

Re: Almost one in five men admits to having no close friends, a survey has found

#440

Post by balaksakrionon »

bradlys wrote: post #341
intrasight wrote: post #149

Here's an easy solution guys - make friends with more women. A couple years ago my wife asked for a divorce (we are still married but separated). It was very much a wake up call that I was very dependent upon her emotionally and I had neglected my other friendships. I did two things. I invested myself in some old friends from high school and college, but as none of them are living in my city, I realized that I really…

> Here's an easy solution guys - make friends with more women I'm male. And I'm going to say that most of the women I know would prefer you didn't offer this advice. Women frequently do a ton of emotional labor for men and receive little back. There's already quite a bit of imbalance. Many men rely on the women in their life for support rather than the men. Most women I know do enjoy their male friends but still wish…

Who on earth are you to tell someone not to make friends with women? I struggle to interpret that charitibly
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