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Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

theatlantic.com

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Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#431

Post by inflatableDodo »

bluGill wrote: post #375
inflatableDodo wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about air conditioned skyways for pedestrians in cities and underground roads everywhere else?

Underground roads are orders of magnitude more expensive, so it isn't worth creating them (with some exceptions). With unlimited resources we could create as many as we want, but I have better things to do with my time/money than build roads. Skyways are significantly cheaper than bridges. It would still be cheaper to make the ground level of your city a building, but not having to support the mass of cars and trucks…

Not worrying about the humans in particular. Uncovered ground level roads are just death traps and fencing them off is even worse in many ways.

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#433

Post by salixrosa »

tomohawk wrote: post #49
dalbasal wrote: post #12

Another way of stating this could be "transport is a policy question." How cities are built and what transport infrastructure they're built around. Im fairly sympathetic to the overall aims of this article. I think a transport system more similar to those in the Netherlands makes for better urban landscapes. But... this habitual style of treating everything as a conspiracy, built around a personified enemy ("They gav…

No conspiracy required when a lot of people are acting according to a common view. People see the real advantages of owning a car and the freedom it brings, and that activity builds industries and has an impact on policies. Of course, GM really did conspire to put the trolleys out of business. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_consp... However, this is the kind of thing organizations (companies,…

Can you give me an example of the immense freedom and flexibility that cars brought?

Can you give me an example that doesn't involve driving to the middle of nowhere, that isn't solved by a good public transportation system, and doesn't involve bringing home large amounts of groceries, or furniture, etc?

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#434

Post by ThomPete »

mcguire wrote: post #398
darkarmani wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's not way to get around if you live in the suburbs and have to drive 30 miles to work and take care of your picking up the kids and drive 20 miles to the nearest grocery store etc. That's a consequence of cars not the other way around. If cars were never invented, you wouldn't have the problem of traveling 30 miles to work and driving 20 miles to a store. Those things are possible because of cars and now it chai…

Apropos of nothing, in 1890 (i.e. pre-car), a pound of flour was roughly $4.00; a dozen eggs was roughly $6.00.

And correlated for inflation?

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#435

Post by DocTomoe »

em-bee wrote: post #334
DocTomoe wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe, urban centers are prohibitively expensive to live in if you want to avoid living in a slum. Imagine if every city was San Francisco, especially in realtion to income. In the end, I can live somewhat comfortably if I commute, essentially trading my time for lower crime rates and nicer surroundings.

which countries/cities are you talking about? i didn't make that experience in germany for example.

Germany is kind of a mixed bag here - situations are getting weird quickly if you search for Munich, Frankfurt, Hamburg or Stuttgart, they get somewhat acceptable when you consider Berlin (but listen to them complaining about rent!), and in some areas, living is almost free (most of the Ruhrgebiet).

Also consider that if you are reading HN, you are likely to work in IT, which gives you a skewed idea on average income levels.

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#436

Post by masonic »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #36
dalbasal wrote: post #12

Another way of stating this could be "transport is a policy question." How cities are built and what transport infrastructure they're built around. Im fairly sympathetic to the overall aims of this article. I think a transport system more similar to those in the Netherlands makes for better urban landscapes. But... this habitual style of treating everything as a conspiracy, built around a personified enemy ("They gav…

Yet if you look at the countries that are held up as examples to follow you will find the one thing they have in common is no substantial domestic car industry. You can't ignore the politics of this.

  the one thing they have in common is no substantial domestic car industry
Another thing they have in common is that they were occupied by a country with a substantial motor vehicle industry, and then later liberated by another country with a substantial motor vehicle industry.

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#437

Post by [deleted] »

systemtest wrote: post #149
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what!? In Europe if you strike a pedestrian on the crosswalk you'll definitely loose your license and be looking at manslaughter charges too while your insurance company will murder you after paying the victim's medical/disability/court bills.

I have hit a pedestrian. Instead of using the nearby crosswalk she walked in between the cars and when she walked in front of me it was too late for me to brake. She flew a couple of meters and landed on the crosswalk. In the police report is was stated that I hit the person on the crosswalk as I couldn't prove otherwise. The woman was taken away in an ambulance due to a broken leg. I was 16 at the time. Really shake…

[deleted]

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#438

Post by nec4b »

salixrosa wrote: post #433
tomohawk wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No conspiracy required when a lot of people are acting according to a common view. People see the real advantages of owning a car and the freedom it brings, and that activity builds industries and has an impact on policies. Of course, GM really did conspire to put the trolleys out of business. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_consp... However, this is the kind of thing organizations (companies,…

Can you give me an example of the immense freedom and flexibility that cars brought? Can you give me an example that doesn't involve driving to the middle of nowhere, that isn't solved by a good public transportation system, and doesn't involve bringing home large amounts of groceries, or furniture, etc?

Daily routine for people who do not live, work and socialize exclusively in the city center. Things like going to work, piking up kids, shopping, visiting other people, having hobbies, outdoor activities, returning borrowed stuff,...

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#439

Post by rocgf »

9dev wrote: post #357
u801e wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it requires cyclists to act like pedestrians and is only safe to use at pedestrian like speeds, then it's not good cycling infrastructure.

In Munich, where I live, for example, we have bike lanes on the sides of most streets throughout the town, and dedicated bike paths in the countryside. It's wonderful - cyclists can drive safely the speed they'd like to, without interfering with neither cars nor pedestrians. I use my bicycle almost exclusively for anything up to 20km.

I am also interested in moving to Munich at some point, could you tell me more about the state of the biking infrastructure? Is it practical to use cycling as your main transportation method around the city? What about recreationally - i.e. biking outside the city, to a nearby village?

Re: Cars took over because the legal system helped squeezed out alternatives

#440

Post by claudius »

Zak wrote: post #423
claudius wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2/3, no way policies in Germany don't favour cars.

German policies don't advantage private car use over public transit use to anywhere near the degree US policies do. To give some examples, a few of which the article mentions or alludes to: * In many US cities, businesses are required by law to have certain amounts of parking for employees and customers. This makes car use more convenient and takes up space, making walking less viable. * German taxes on gasoline and…

* You mean like https://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/Stadtrecht/vorschrift/926.ht..., which requires one parking space per apartment (residential use) and also one parking space per 20 to 80 m² for businesses?

* They may be high but motorists still pay less in taxes than the general public contributes to the upkeep of their infrastructure, even when excluding externalised costs (healthcare, climate change accommodation etc).

* The same is true for e.g. New York, whereas (e.g.) London has a fair amount of low-density housing. Not quite sure how this is an argument if the vast majority of space in cities is still reserved for cars (either parking or driving).

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