My somewhat complete salary history as a software engineer • Hacker News Board

Re: My somewhat complete salary history as a software engineer

#431

Post by Joky » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 3:19 PM UTC

ponyous wrote: post #371

osrec wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even if it is a good developer, I don't believe the qualities of senior developer are being acquired so quickly. So here's where I have my issue. Why can't someone acquire those qualities quickly? Why should your belief be factored in when gauging someone's expertise? I say, let's just look at their abilities and then decide. You may be surprised at how quickly some people pick up certain skills! > Most of the peop…

> Why can't someone acquire those qualities quickly? Because there is no time to do the full cycle from start to release more than twice in 2 years. Usually a project that will give you decent insights takes some time to build. Usually at least 6 months and then several months to see what you did wrong. So if you did this cycle once, you are not aware of how you screwed it up and if other methods would yield better r…

Just as another data point: I have been looking at it like you in the past, but now I’m getting old enough that I worked with enough engineers to realize that whole experience has a general correlation with seniority, there is a huge variation between individual.

I have in mind one of the most skilled and mature engineer I have ever collaborated with who has less than two years professional experience. I also worked with many 10y experienced folks who qualify as senior for this, but were pretty sloppy otherwise.

Re: My somewhat complete salary history as a software engineer

#432

Post by jhall1468 » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 3:21 PM UTC

INTPenis wrote: post #424

Salary isn't everything. I'm more interested in your monthly expenses, your vacation days, your parental leave options and flexible work hours. 200k USD a year is just shocking to me living in Swedens 3rd largest city, ca. 300k inhabitants. But I live well and I feel good from my work.

I don't know how expensive Sweeden is, but that $200k salary generally comes with rent of $2000-$3000 for a small one bedroom. Large swaths of Silicon Valley have average home prices well over $1 million USD.

And the tech sector here has excellent benefits relative to non-tech, but they still probably don't even come close to your country. 3-4 weeks paid vacation a year plus a few national holidays, 6-8 weeks paid parental leave. There are outliers that offer more, but generally aren't common.

Re: My somewhat complete salary history as a software engineer

#433

Post by hudon » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 3:21 PM UTC

BowBun wrote: post #418

bambamb wrote: post #409

It amazes me that someone as intelligent as this guy can say something asinine as “as a white man I know I can negotiate without backlash.” Not only is there no evidence to support this, he seems completely oblivious to the fact that he is not a representative white man at all. He has written widely used books on JavaScript! Don’t you think THAT might be the reason he can negotiate without backlash rather than his ra…

At the risk of opening a can of worms, I think the author is right and you are contributing to the systemic issue by trying to deflect their mention of privilege. If you are a white male, you have privilege. I don't think OP would ever say that's the only factor to their success, but recognizing privilege and where you have taken advantage of it in life is healthy progress towards equality. http://psycnet.apa.org/rec…

Anecdotal but at my previous employer, women and some racial minorities were given a higher score during interviews because of their gender or race (this was explicit) and white men were de-prioritized. It was actually a disadvantage to be white.

Re: My somewhat complete salary history as a software engineer

#434

Post by scarface74 » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 3:21 PM UTC

dclowd9901 wrote: post #419

Someone1234 wrote: post #296

These threads always invite the outliers (i.e. those who want to humble brag). Here's mine outside Washington/California/Silicon Valley/NYC: - $40K: 2010-2013, "DevOps" at small startup. No ownership/shares. - $45-72K: 2014-Current, Programmer (various job titles) working for state's education department Even management here only make $90K capping out around $115K~. But cost of living is low. These threads never have…

Don’t shame people for making more money than others. The idea of this is we all see what we make. The outliers are making what we should all make.

It's not about shaming people. HN is full of West Coast FAANG SV employees who are outliers. It's easy for people to feel that their perfectly normal salaries are low.

Re: My somewhat complete salary history as a software engineer

#435

Post by robohydrate » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 3:23 PM UTC

Fort Lauderdale, FL

2011-2012 Intern test engineer at a small software shop, $15/hr

2013-2014 Full time test engineer at same small software shop. Starting $45k, ending $50k

2014-2018 Full time software engineer at a larger corporate place, starting 82k currently 105k

All of the above doing systems programming with c/c++ mostly and a drop of powershell and C#

Re: My somewhat complete salary history as a software engineer

#436

Post by apexalpha » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 3:23 PM UTC

phyller wrote: post #397

apexalpha wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As always: it's not that Black and White. Many people in my country, and NW Europe in general, opt for pay in another currency: time. Dutch people work _on average_ 350 hours less per year than their US counterparts; or about 7 weeks worth when working 40 hours a week. It's not unheard of in my company to have between 30 and 50 paid days off per year on top of the national holidays. These days are negotiated during s…

I hear this a lot, but you can do the same thing in the US with a much higher salary. I have taken 4 to 5 weeks off in a year, plus two weeks of national holidays, with no pay cut at all. You can negotiate for more. US companies will pay for your healthcare basically completely (your entire family), and contribute towards continuing education and your retirement accounts. Granted, that doesn't continue after you stop…

I understand and I agree with you for the most part. My response was to the "It boggles my mind that salaries can be so much lower in parts of Europe" comment above me.

Software Engineers definitely get paid more in the US than in the EU. But some of the difference can be explained by it. Although I don't think software engineers in either country have much to complain about.

That being said, these perks that I listed go for everyone in the country, not just the top % of all working people. In one form or another this is paid for by people who can, like software engineers.

p.s. 4 weeks is the legal minimum amount of vacation days here. Most people have double that.

Re: My somewhat complete salary history as a software engineer

#437

Post by jhall1468 » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 3:25 PM UTC

flatfilefan wrote: post #416

mysalarythrow wrote: post #339

Male, went to a top 5 CS school, US west coast 2001: BigCo $76,000/year + $20,000 signing bonus (first job out of school) 2007: Freelancing between $100-$200/hr depending on project 2012: Startup #1 $180,000/year + $75,000 signing bonus + a bit of stock that's never been worth anything (but I exercised upon leaving and paid a lot of taxes on, so I'm net negative ~$300k) 2015: Startup #2 $240,000/year + lots of stock…

Out of curiosity and a bit of jealousy :-) What is the programming field companies are willing to give MM of RSU to programmers? Do you really make a difference to their top line? I had the impression that it’s more the project management and business development that can justify that compensation.

$2MM RSU over 4 years is $500k in stock compensation. That kind of comp is less about field and more about level. You're looking at an L7+ for that kind of comp at any of the big companies (maybe L8?). So Senior Staff/Principal Engineer type of deal.

Re: My somewhat complete salary history as a software engineer

#438

Post by scarface74 » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 3:26 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #269

ponyous wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like it's more important to change titles than company according to your history. To be honest I'm a bit offended you consider yourself senior with 2 years of experience.

I got promoted to "senior" developer less than 6 months out of university because my employer wanted to inflate the credibility of his consulting business. Job titles aren't standardised and can be pretty meaningless between organisations.

Yep, same thing happened to me. I was a computer operator for a small company that was trying to start a new line of business in the mid 90s. I was introduced as their "lead developer with 5+ years of experience". The "experience" was writing Applesoft Basic and Assembly language programs in middle school and high school and doing a contract for a college while I was in college writing HyperCard Stacks....

Now 20 years later, I'm introduced as the "Lead AWS Architect" because I have about a year of experience with AWS and three certs....

Re: My somewhat complete salary history as a software engineer

#439

Post by harperlee » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 3:28 PM UTC

sunaurus wrote: post #141

I always wonder when I read about salaries in other countries - what do the numbers usually mean? Not sure if this is how it works everywhere, but where I live, we have 3 different ways of talking about salary: 1) What you actually get 2) What you actually get + what you pay in taxes 3) What you actually get + what you pay in taxes + what your employer pays in taxes Usually we talk about #2 when discussing salaries.…

I think one way of having a productive comparison is to use percentage points on wage increases; that way it doesnt matter location or currency, cost of living etc. as these can be reflected in base salary as a proxy.

Re: My somewhat complete salary history as a software engineer

#440

Post by xapata » Wed, Oct 31, 2018, 3:29 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #434

dclowd9901 wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t shame people for making more money than others. The idea of this is we all see what we make. The outliers are making what we should all make.

It's not about shaming people. HN is full of West Coast FAANG SV employees who are outliers. It's easy for people to feel that their perfectly normal salaries are low.

On the positive side, if we all feel like our salaries are low, we'll collectively ask for more money. Don't be jealous, but do ask for a raise.