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Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

nytimes.com

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Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#431

Post by jobserunder »

woodruffw wrote: post #276
mc32 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a difficult question. Communism has led to countless unjust senseless deaths. Many people alive would be dead in a traditionally communist regime. Should we make communism objectionable as a political ideology? (note: I am not saying naziism should not be objectionable, just that we have an equally deadly ideology that has some acceptance) These things are fraught with complication.

Communism, expressed as the kind that killed all those people, is objectionable. I object to it, and it seems like a broad segment of the population agrees. However, that just isn't the same as what I'm describing. There is nothing analytical about communism that poses an existential threat to me. Neo-Nazism, on other other hand, is a priori incompatible with my existence.

[flagged]

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#432

Post by manfredo »

spicymaki wrote: post #234

I find it ironic that conservative employees are arguing about increasing diversity (specifically political diversity). Usually conservatives support culture fit as a concept to bolster opposition to hiring more underrepresented minorities and women. They usually claim that diversity is antithetical to efficiency and having shared cultural values (usually the dominant culture's values) is the key to successful teams.…

I think the criticism is more about the selectiveness of diversity. Companies in SV are very keen on establish practices to bring about the hiring of more women, African Americans, and Latinos often with the justification that a broader set of viewpoints is crucial I'm creating a good working environment. But no one bats an eye when most employees can't name a single Republican or conservative on their team or department. It's easy to conclude that this whole diversity initiative isn't actually about bringing in people with different viewpoints.

For what it's worth, my current employer has easily the most diverse tech workforce in terms of gender and race but it's also easily the most monocultural company one I've worked at.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#433

Post by sjg007 »

euroclydon wrote: post #139
tptacek wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? We're all generally well-paid (even with respect to the value we create). But this whole message board is practically dedicated to the ways in which our industry pisses us off, from confiscatory IP clauses to open offices to death march projects. Who's to say labor can't organize simply for a better shop to work in? That's not unprecedented.

I associate unions with homogenized labor, stratus of equivalent positions, but we’re all too unique 10x butterflies for that. I mean, what part of your career arc would have been better served in a unionized environment?

Your retirement and your healthcare would probably be better in a union.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#434

Post by AnthonyMouse »

colanderman wrote: post #399
ralusek wrote: post #235

And it has been my experience that people who have politics "happen" to them from "the moment [they] wake up to the moment [they] sleep" in large part simply perceive that to be their existence. I have read countless articles and posts at this point claiming that "America doesn't care about black bodies" and that black people in America should "fear for their lives every day," all in regards to the perceived danger o…

Um, no. When you are legally barred from say, having power of attorney when your loved one of decades is on their deathbed, or, say, unable to find a landlord that will rent to you, because some asshole politicians fought on behalf of their asshole constituents against your right to do so simply because you do not conform to the idea they project onto their god as holding as to what constitutes a "proper" family unit…

Is it not relevant that "the system" has already done what you wanted in this case and constitutionally recognized gay marriage? You're asking for something you already have.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#435

Post by badminton1 »

_8j50 wrote: post #84

Worked across very liberal and very conservative places in tech. Neither is pleasant. In my opinion, the American self-image and self-worth largely characterized by subscription to a political ideology is the problem. What bothers me is not dress codes,free meals,open offices,etc... But the very idea that a company would display or promote politics in the work place. Why are companies promoting "pride",donating to tr…

By saying "if you are my coworker, I respect you as a colleague and a human being" you are already expressing some personal views.

Some people will take 1 second to decide they don't like you because of stereotypes and there's nothing you can do about it.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#436

Post by amanaplanacanal »

sosense wrote: post #292
gameswithgo wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That this is downvoted here is really a depressing thing. Does hackernews actually represent the average, highly educated tech professional? If so we are in for a very bad time.

Keep politics out of the workplace. Just because you support the things listed, it doesn't mean everyone has to hear about it and succumb to your outspoken politics. Go out on the street, go home, go anywhere else and be political. At work, just shut up and work.

Well, here's the deal. The employer gets to decide, since it is their company. Before I retired, there were a lot of things I didn't like about work. I thought management regularly made bad decisions, in a number of different areas. But if you are an employee, you go along with what management wants, or you move along.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#437

Post by madrox »

ianai wrote: post #70
madrox wrote: post #63

Has Facebook ever had anything close to cultural principles? At least Google had "don't be evil" for a while. This is such a clear mirror for what Facebook is going through itself. As a company it never stood for anything except for growth and engagement at all costs. When leadership doesn't stand for anything, it invites others to try to guide culture. If Zuckerberg had come out to say either the product or the comp…

I don’t buy that zuvkerberg is a liberal. He’s made it clear he doesn’t respect anyone’s privacy nor honor their trust. He seems highly manipulative wrapped in whatever phrasing works at the moment.

I'm not sure he's either liberal or conservative. I've never seen him stand for anything.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#438

Post by guiambros »

ralusek wrote: post #235

And it has been my experience that people who have politics "happen" to them from "the moment [they] wake up to the moment [they] sleep" in large part simply perceive that to be their existence. I have read countless articles and posts at this point claiming that "America doesn't care about black bodies" and that black people in America should "fear for their lives every day," all in regards to the perceived danger o…

> the facts are that 1000 people (0.000003% of the population) are killed by police annually. 24% of those killed are black

Per 2016 US Census [1]:

   > Black or African American = 40,241,818 (12.6%)
Now compare with the number of people killed by the police in 2017 by race [2]. The math is left as an exercise for the reader...

If you really believe that under-represented minorities are not at a major disadvantage in our society, facing multiple layers of explicit and implicit discrimination against them, then, in my opinion, you're part of the problem.

> the lack of female representation in tech...

Likewise, if you took the pseudo-science [3] by disgruntled engineers for granted, and believe that the lack of female representation in tech is due to some ridiculous genetic predisposition, ignoring 50+ years of biases and stereotypes, on top of open sexual and moral harassment, then you're part of the reason for the divide. It's exactly this kind of thinking that creates gender stereotyping and legitimizes the systemic sexism in our industry.

If you're interested in understanding more about the true root causes of our gender disparity, a good initial read is "Brotopia: Breaking Up the Boys' Club of Silicon Valley", by the amazing Emily Chang [4]. No pseudo-science required.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Demography_of_the...

[2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de...

[3] https://www.recode.net/2017/8/11/16127992/google-engineer-me...

[4] https://www.amazon.com/Brotopia-Breaking-Boys-Silicon-Valley...

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#439

Post by wilsonnb3 »

manfredo wrote: post #409
emddudley wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, one could not argue that in any seriousness. All Lives Matter is being used primarily as an attempt to diminish Black Lives Matter.

One absolutely could. Black lives matter is a strict subset of all lives matter. Any life being covered by "black lives matter" is also covered by "all lives matter". In that sense, it cannot diminish "black lives matter" because "black lives matter" is wholly contained within "all lives matter". Furthermore, the portion of the population that has a direct interest in the movement succeeding is expanded by 5-7x. Seem…

You're completely ignoring the subtext from the All Lives Matter folks.

Saying "all lives matter" in response to "black lives matter" implies that the BLM folks are saying that only black lives matter, which they are not saying. It also implies that all races in america face similar struggles, which is also not totally true.

Re: Some Facebook Employees Unite to Challenge Its ‘Intolerant’ Liberal Culture

#440

Post by manfredo »

some1else wrote: post #418
manfredo wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"How about pangolins then? Or giraffes? I know, let's start a moment to protect all endagered species - including whales!" How is this "all endagered animals matter" a bad thing? For what it's worth, I don't object to either "all species" or just whales. Regardless of whether someone is trying to protect all or focus their attention on one specific species, they're both working towards a good cause - though I do disa…

Just do something for endangered species then. The problem with your entire line of thought is, that you're trying to make it seem like we shouldn't allocate more resources to pertinent causes. Save pangolins (and smallpox) if you really care about them. What is it about whale penises that's causing all this jealousy and needless arguments about semantics?

> Just do something for endangered species then. The problem with your entire line of thought is, that you're trying to make it seem like we shouldn't allocate more resources to pertinent causes. Save pangolins (and smallpox) if you really care about them.

I agree - this is exactly what "all endagered species matter" is is doing.

> What is it about whale penises that's causing all this jealousy and needless arguments about semantics?

This notion of jealousy of genetalia is something you brought up on your own initiative. Also, how is it relevant?

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