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Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

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Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#431

Post by Retra »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #268
belltaco wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of excessive red tape, the judicial system has been doing a reasonable job of determining facts in most modern countries.

It actually doesn't. Example: Did OJ kill anybody? Judicial system engages in determining whether someone is guilty based on the evidence that it itself filters. What about more complex things? Like what if I say "P = NP"? Is that a lie? And then, do you want a trial for every comment? That will not work even for a fraction of comments.

>Like what if I say "P = NP"? Is that a lie?

That can't be determined to be a lie unless someone solves the problem. It's only a conjecture or assertion until then.

>And then, do you want a trial for every comment? That will not work even for a fraction of comments.

Only really has to apply to political statements made by the most powerful office holders, and only when contested, and only when there is a imminent intent to deceive and impact policy.

It's not really an all-or-nothing situation. It's just a matter of how much can be achieved within a reasonable cost.

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#432

Post by criddell »

_m8fo wrote: post #46

So we've tried: - Real identities (Facebook comments) - Voting and self moderation (Reddit, HN, etc.) - Strong moderation (Reddit, HN) They all result in toxic comments, trolling, an echo chamber,or worse, a complete lack of participation. There's no real solution to this problem. However, if you create consequences or a cost to commenting you'd eliminate toxic comments and trolling at the cost of less participation…

> Physical mail is sent to your house in order to get a single account.

That's how NextDoor works and it seems to work reasonably well.

There are some big communities that seen relatively healthy to me. For example, Instagram is easily my favorite social network. I see photos that my friends take and that's about it. I pull it up and am done with it in a minute or two.

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#433

Post by empath75 »

_m8fo wrote: post #46

So we've tried: - Real identities (Facebook comments) - Voting and self moderation (Reddit, HN, etc.) - Strong moderation (Reddit, HN) They all result in toxic comments, trolling, an echo chamber,or worse, a complete lack of participation. There's no real solution to this problem. However, if you create consequences or a cost to commenting you'd eliminate toxic comments and trolling at the cost of less participation…

It seems like if moderators of subreddits were given the ability to A) limit posting rights to paid users and b) given the ability to ban at will, that most subreddits would see a much improved commenting culture.

It would also help reddit monetize.

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#434

Post by Retra »

ziikutv wrote: post #422

Reddit doesn’t owe anyone anything. how about asking kids parents to detoxify their kids than solving the problem way down the chain of command? People are shitty online because they have anonymity. Now instead of going ahead and removing that, it might be worth going backward even more and going to the person. people need to be nice on the internet. The internet does not need to be nice to people. Detoxifying intern…

So it's going overboard to police what people say in a public forum, but it's not going overboard to police what parents teach their children in their own home? You're more afraid of censorship in the public space than state-mandated parenting practices in private?

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#435

Post by [deleted] »

icanhackit wrote: post #390
Trundle wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have any data on it mostly being girls doing it for the thrill? It seems like every time I like a photo and look the posters profile, they've got something else going on where the free photo was just marketing. Tons of underwear selling.

> It seems like every time I like a photo and look the posters profile No offence intended but could it be that well-proportioned, model-like subjects are more likely to have their profile viewed, so it's a case of sample bias? While no, I don't have any hard data so my points are anecdotal, I tend to be disinterested in subjects that are more model-like as the point for me is to look at everyday people getting their…

[deleted]

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#436

Post by anon6357814 »

_m8fo wrote: post #46

So we've tried: - Real identities (Facebook comments) - Voting and self moderation (Reddit, HN, etc.) - Strong moderation (Reddit, HN) They all result in toxic comments, trolling, an echo chamber,or worse, a complete lack of participation. There's no real solution to this problem. However, if you create consequences or a cost to commenting you'd eliminate toxic comments and trolling at the cost of less participation…

> So we've tried

4chan also exists and it works and is marvelously non-toxic once you realize that any insults hurled at you are impersonal because they can only attack what you have immediately posted previously. Your attack surface is tiny, assuming basic information hygiene.

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#437

Post by to_bpr »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #297
wufufufu wrote: post #260

You are making the problem seem worse than it actually is. Account age and inability to delete comments make an anonymous reputation pretty realistic on HN at least. Just in this thread we see examples of toxic comments being downvoted into invisibility (oblivion). Or is the problem that /r/the_donald exists? Just don't go there if you don't like it. And don't go to /r/trees if you don't like marijuana.

The problem is that reddit is one site. You can live in other "neighborhoods" on reddit that are not /r/the_donald, but you are still forced to live in the same city. That means people from there will show up in all of the other sub-reddits, voting and commenting away and twisting every single part of the site to be what they want. It's exhausting to put up with, and if you don't notice it then count yourself lucky.…

>It's exhausting to put up with

The sub in question has had polls and surveys posted to it, popular ones which have remained on the front page of it, and they've received paltry engagement (~10,000 engagements).

You're making it out as though that one entity has corrupted the site, which is a plainly hysterical claim based on the evidence.

>Folks from there will re-post links (or share via chat) to "controversial" posts in other sub-reddits to coordinate brigading, for example.

Do you have any evidence for this? Because discord groups to disrupt Reddit aren't unique to T_D and the hyper-leftist ones far outnumber those on the right, as with their meta-subreddit parents.

It's disappointing to see Reddit drama appearing on this site as often as it is. I remember a time when HN wasn't really on the Redditor's radar. What good times they were.

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#438

Post by mwfunk »

white-flame wrote: post #386
floren wrote: post #339

I can't wait for the word "toxic" to drop out of favor. It implies that the person is not just giving a bad opinion, but is in fact fundamentally flawed and dangerous. Arsenic isn't toxic because it had a bad day at work, arsenic is by its nature a deadly poison and you can't change it, only avoid it. The vast majority of people labeled "toxic", though, are just humans with a variety of opinions and beliefs, some you…

Exactly. Giving a massive benefit of the doubt that their complaints can be non-partisan, some alternative terms that might be more correct to their concerns might be: - Polarizing - Extremist/Fundamentalist/Zealotry - Trolling However, these sorts of things are legitimately "toxic" to a welcoming discussion environment (ie a large social site's revenue stream), but it's being conflated as being "toxic" to society in…

I would say that all of those things are toxic to society in general. Those behaviors just tend to be more muted out in the real world where acting shitty is more likely to have immediate consequences.

I can't think of any non-contrived situations where those behaviors aren't equally damaging to social bonds in any situation, whether it's an online community or a government or a family or an organization. They all reduce enlightenment, are always irrational, and always increase human misery, even if it's just a teensy bit in the most benign cases.

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#439

Post by ziikutv »

Retra wrote: post #434
ziikutv wrote: post #422

Reddit doesn’t owe anyone anything. how about asking kids parents to detoxify their kids than solving the problem way down the chain of command? People are shitty online because they have anonymity. Now instead of going ahead and removing that, it might be worth going backward even more and going to the person. people need to be nice on the internet. The internet does not need to be nice to people. Detoxifying intern…

So it's going overboard to police what people say in a public forum, but it's not going overboard to police what parents teach their children in their own home? You're more afraid of censorship in the public space than state-mandated parenting practices in private?

> state-mandated parenting practices.

I hope I can become a good parent and can teach my kids to be good people by the time I am ready. If you need a state to tell you that, you probably should not be having kids. Having is a privilege and unfortunately also a right.

Edit: In all seriousness, what I was saying is that we should be teaching kids to be good people rather than acting good on the internet.

Also, we should be smart enough to know that all this article is doing is spewing shit on Reddit to generate them pageviews. That is all journalism is now a days.

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#440

Post by zaroth »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #387
zaroth wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Arrests for offensive Facebook and Twitter posts soar in London" [1] "Arrests for 'offensive' Twitter and Facebook messages up by a third" [2] "British Police Arrest At Least 3,395 People for ‘Offensive’ Online Comments in One Year" [3] "Police arresting nine people a day in fight against web trolls" [4] "More than 3,300 people were detained and questioned last year over so-called trolling on social media and other…

None of those articles mention the content of the posts.

There are a few examples in there. Here’s a few more [1]. Mostly it’s ill advised mouthing off, or blowing off steam as was the case of the guy delayed hours at an airport. These are not “true threats” or incitement, which are charged differently.

[1] - https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/killallwhitemen-twitter-trolli...

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