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Did Bitcoin just prove it can't scale?

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Did Bitcoin just prove it can't scale?

#431

Post by etr-strike »

zargon wrote: post #353
grubles wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't feign ignorance. You know exactly what I'm talking about. :)

For those who don't understand what this is about: one of the tactics that trolls like grubles use is referring to Bitcoin Cash as Bcash as a form of derision. Bitcoin Cash does not call itself Bcash and the term Bcash is considered derogatory.

“Bitcoin cash” is a name chosen to confuse newcomers and attempt to steal the bitcoin brand. The CEO of bcash refers to Bitcoin as “SegwitCoin” and their official /r/btc subreddit regularly claims to be the real bitcoin. Bcash is an appropriate name for the altcoin to eliminate confusion.

Re: Did Bitcoin just prove it can't scale?

#433

Post by raugustinus »

TimJYoung wrote: post #157
rescripting wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that matter? If you're looking to develop a drug to treat hypertension but end up with Viagra by accident instead, do you throw it away because that wasn't the original goal?

It certainly matters if you've still got a lot of people running around telling anyone that will listen that the drug is a sure-fire cure for hypertension.

There's a lot of people in the world running around telling people all kinds of things.

Re: Did Bitcoin just prove it can't scale?

#434

Post by ben_w »

etr-strike wrote: post #426
ben_w wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BitShares, apparently. Press release June 10, 2015, claimed 100,000 t/s.

Never heard of it. I suspect their claim is either bogus or their coin is a database.

There are far too many cryptocurrencies to keep track of, bit even if the claim is false, Bitcoin is still absurdly slow compared to existing normal systems.

Re: Did Bitcoin just prove it can't scale?

#435

Post by ben_w »

wallacoloo wrote: post #423
ben_w wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marvellous, one whole order of magnitude! If you manage another factor of 5000 and Bitcoin will reach what Visa and Mastercard (and, separately, another cryptocurrency) managed several years ago .

Does every conversation about bitcoin have to devolve into snark and disrespect? It's not fun. It doesn't do any good for anyone.

Good question. I’m frustrated by the unwillingness of bitcoin (specifically bitcoin, not blickchain or cryptocurrencies in general) fans to recognise the flaws. It’s like… huh, like politics. Or religion, which is kinda also politics.

Re: Did Bitcoin just prove it can't scale?

#436

Post by 1ris »

thatcat wrote: post #85
mchristen wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The size of blocks is not core to the algorithm of Bitcoin though. What would you say to the person trying to send $30 only to have $20 of it eaten up in fees? Come back later when you can afford to use Bitcoin?

I'd say stop storing your spending money as btc, it's an asset not cash. Can you liquidate your 30$ peice of gold in < 4 hours for market value? Probably not.

I can take my maple leave or krugerrand and change that in any crash for gold/western union/money exchange shed for almost market rate in minutes. There are plenty of them. Even I take a cap that is its faster and cheaper than bitcoin.

Re: Did Bitcoin just prove it can't scale?

#437

Post by mort96 »

gruez wrote: post #318
theWatcher37 wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incorrect. The fact is the network lacked the capacity to handle the requested number of transactions, and in turn auctioned off the tickets to the lifeboat to whoever paid the most. You’re arguing “nobody died in the titanic that didn’t pay enough”, when the problem is clearly there aren’t enough lifeboats.

why are you equating space on a global ledger with space on a lifeboat?

It's called an analogy.

Re: Did Bitcoin just prove it can't scale?

#438

Post by mr_spothawk »

etr-strike wrote: post #427
rrix2 wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why what? why does increasing propagation delay lead to centralization?

Because miners on the other side of the world don’t hear about the latest block until much later than other miners? Miners who hear about it first get a head start mining the next block. If the delay is significant, you get a single mining cartel. Mining a block is suppose to be a lottery, not a race.

Thanks for the clarification here. I've read a lot of your comments today, and this is the first time I've understood your point.

I've learned a lot, btw... so thanks for that too.

Re: Did Bitcoin just prove it can't scale?

#439

Post by jaredklewis »

SaltyFetus wrote: post #340
theWatcher37 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lighting network completely undermines the entire purpose of bitcoin, and blockstreams seeming desire to sabotage bitcoin for daily use coincides suspiciously with their outside “investment”. If you read the original bitcoin white paper it is clearly evident that the purpose of bitcoin was as a currency. These insane fees, wait times, and rediculous technical decisions by core have made it such that bitcoin is be…

If you believe lightning undermines the whole purpose and is the product of sabotage (or whatever core is being accused of these days), there are multiple forks to choose from that don't use it. No need to attack Bitcoin, just go all in on Bitcoin Cash , put your money where your mouth is, and move on.

Yea! And I wish all these American liberals would stop complaining about Trump policies. Put your money where your mouth is and move to Mexico already! /s

Re: Did Bitcoin just prove it can't scale?

#440

Post by _tulpa »

sgspace wrote: post #380
_tulpa wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. We'll just ignore the issues associated with increasing full-node storage requirements even faster than they're already increasing. And lower transaction fees lead to lower block rewards which lowers mining profitability. Both of these things result in more centralization. While we're at it we'll forget the post-fork difficulty adjustment faisco brought to us by the Bitcoin cash devs. We'll just trust their compe…

Lower transaction fees leads to more volume of transactions. They’re going for the amazon approach of razor thin margins which should lead to more transactions overall. They plan to keep transaction fees around 1 penny by increasing the block size as it fills up. Next fork for Bitcoin Cash will give it 32mb blocks.

Yeah I realise that. Even if it does work (noting currently most BCH blocks are tiny) then the chain will grow by ~135Gb per month (the entire Bitcoin chain is ~145Gb). Running a full node means you now have to buy a hard-drive (or two) and hope your internet connection isn't capped. You also have to be OK with really slow block propagation (which you really shouldn't be).

There are some very good reasons for small blocks and higher on-chain transaction fees.

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