Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel • Hacker News Board

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#431

Post by Ajedi32 » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 3:23 AM UTC

samstave wrote: post #407

Ajedi32 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the uber now has to either get a person or take that car to a hospital - how do they know to do such? It does? Why? What if the person passed out in their own, manually driven car? Would you expect that car to automatically call an ambulance? Just because you theoretically could have some kind of elaborate system that detects when the user falls unconscious and carries them to the hospital, doesn't mean that's _…

What do you mean why? This is literally the stupidest response on this thread. Why? Because presume I am paying Ajedi32 to drive me home. So the presumption is that Ajedi32 is responsible for my well being to arrive Home. So I don’t arrive home. I get dumped on the side of the road or I die in the presumed care of Ajedi32. Don’t mess around with Your reputation, Ajedi32 because you want to defend stupid ai driving ca…

Yes, you're paying the car to drive you home. You're not paying the car to monitor your vital signs, or to break up fights between you and another passenger. Those have nothing to do with the car's primary function.

If you were paying me to drive you home you might reasonably expect that I would also do those things, since I'm a human and am therefore capable of performing tasks completely unrelated to the one you're paying me for. But the car isn't a human, and there's no reason you should expect it to behave like one in all respects. (For example, I am also capable of engaging in small talk with you. Would you expect the self driving car to be capable of performing that task, just because I can?)

Basically, if you OD and pass out in the back of a autonomous car, there's no reason to expect the outcome to be any different from if you ODd and passed out in a public restroom. And you wouldn't be justified in blaming the car for that anymore than you'd be justified in blaming the restroom.

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#432

Post by samstave » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 3:25 AM UTC

ggggtez wrote: post #47

samstave wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK - im replying to my comment because I find all these answers to be bullshit and here is why: So what these answers say is that you "no longer have any expectation of privacy while driving out and about" -- which is a fine argument to make in a police state, are we a police state - because guess what: this is now saying that any self driving car company has the ability to license plate scan you and take your pictur…

So, if I crash into your car and drive away, are you saying you wouldn't write down my license plate or try to take a picture of my car? Why would a private company be any different than a private citizen? Of course they would take photos of you committing a crime against them...

im saying that I am PD and I want to run a random search for X lic plate and I access the autonomous nodes driving all the freeways for lic X and I see through cams and sensors that 'ggggtez' hasnt yet put his new sticker on his car - via the auto car nodes... and so I track him with these sensors and pull him over to give him a tiket. the shit was paid, his sticker was in the mail, but he didnt get/apply it yet - but I cot him time and money, because, fuck you, ggggtz, and thats why.

and what i am saying is that silicon vally is building that reality, and fuck you silicon valley, because I helped al along these nearly 3 decades and I do not want this reality.

its pretty gosh darn simple. cyber-dystopia was what we were supposed to be fighting.

I already got FUCKING SUED for revealing too much on HN in the past - this shit is not a joke people.

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#433

Post by mercutio2 » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 3:26 AM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #379

titzer wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a 100 mile stretch of I-80... Logistically speaking, empty places are really, really easy to build rail through. (Politically they may not be). These rail networks already exist, but they are often not dual line, aren't engineered to support fast trains, and there aren't passenger rail options that utilize them. All of these factors are due to consistent under investment because of chick-and-egg and politi…

You can have way more passagers on a highway than on railroads though. Capacity wise cars are the better choice because its a continuous flow. Plus, they get you where you need to be, not just where the track stops.

This is the opposite of everything I’ve ever read about transportation capacity.

Trains have exceptional capacity. You can make them longer, you can increase frequency. Cars routinely max out capacity in roadways where equivalent area train systems would have vastly more capacity without breaking a sweat.

Last-mile is better for cars, though.

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

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Post by mjrbrennan » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 3:36 AM UTC

aey wrote: post #363

rrhd wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pfft, made up problems. You will submit to not owning anything. You don't need a house either, just go to an AirBnB every night. Everything must be a service. Ideally provided by google. Next thing your going to say is that waiting for 15 minutes in the rain with a crying baby while you get gouged for triple price because of nearby concert is a problem for you. Just suck it up and accept that car ownership is a outda…

we (people with families), will just create our own zones outside of cities with identical tacky housing that will make childless hipsters go blind. there will be no avocado toast, and the only music will be alternative rock from the mid 1990s

Hey I have a family and you better not even try taking away my avo toast buddy!

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#435

Post by Ajedi32 » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 3:39 AM UTC

jdminhbg wrote: post #429

Ajedi32 wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think you wouldn't be able to summon a self-driving Ford F-150 via the Waymo app? It's not like minivans are the only cars capable of being self-driving.

I think in a lot of places the low population density would mean the F-150 would be 20+ minutes away every time. You might get sick of that and be willing to pay to always have it.

I don't know about that. Imagine for a minute that every car on the road right now were self-driving. How far away do you suppose the nearest pickup truck is from you right now?

There may indeed be locations where 20+ minutes is a realistic answer, but I suspect those places are more rare than you think.

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

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Post by dogruck » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 3:43 AM UTC

3pt14159 wrote: post #208

Animats wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymo does seem to be ahead technically. They've been working on the hard cases for years, while the other guys are still struggling. They are trying hard to get good situational awareness. One of the few neutral measures we have are CA DMV's disconnect and accident reports, and in those, Waymo has been consistently ahead. Waymo is hooked up with FCA (Fiat-Chrysler Automobiles), of all things. Uber is "fake it 'til y…

One question I can't seem to find a good answer for is this: Why doesn't the self-driving tech hand off control to a remote driver if the internet connection is good enough and there is enough warning? Even with a couple seconds notice a primed human could take the wheel and do the right thing when the sensors aren't making sense.

The latencies are too high. It’s not an aerial drone.

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

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Post by MarkMc » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 3:43 AM UTC

alooPotato wrote: post #404

MarkMc wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Waymo's tech is years ahead of the competition ... then I think a lot of the self-driving companies and car manufacturers in the US will be having cold sweats...I see this lead up enabling Waymo to capture significant market share in the US in regions where laws towards autonomous vehicles are friendly Yes, Waymo may capture 100% of the self-driving tech market for a few years, but I don't see it having a sustai…

> Yes, Waymo may capture 100% of the self-driving tech market for a few years, but I don't see it having a sustainable advantage. As soon as another company develops self-driving technology that meets safety standards it can undercut Waymo and capture a significant market share. In 10 years self driving tech will be a commodity product - any car manufacturer/ride hailing company will be able to choose between a half-…

> Maybe they don't care about color and horsepower but they might care about other features

It's instructive to look at the current offering of ride sharing / taxi / hire-for-a-few-days car companies. Uber offers a choice between a standard car, a luxury car and SUV/minivan. Within each category the market doesn't support much differentiation: if I order a luxury car I expect leather seats but don't really care whether I get a BMW, Lexus or Audi.

> I'm still unsure whether net cars will go up or go down, theirs arguments on both sides.

It's possible that the number of car miles travelled will double, the number of vehicles produced will be flat, and the total profit of car manufacturers will halve.

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#438

Post by nmstoker » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 4:08 AM UTC

Just a small point, but I'm curious if the road rights of way are significantly different there to the UK. I ask because in the video there's a bit near the end where the car pulls out of a smaller road in front of a red car that I'd normally have considered to have the right of way. Obviously they left it in intentionally, so is that kind of manouver simply not against the right of way there?

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#439

Post by gabelevi » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 4:12 AM UTC

nmstoker wrote: post #438

Just a small point, but I'm curious if the road rights of way are significantly different there to the UK. I ask because in the video there's a bit near the end where the car pulls out of a smaller road in front of a red car that I'd normally have considered to have the right of way. Obviously they left it in intentionally, so is that kind of manouver simply not against the right of way there?

The red car had a stop sign too. You can see the back of the hexagonal stop sign.

Re: Waymo now testing its self-driving cars on public roads with no one at the wheel

#440

Post by paulie_a » Wed, Nov 08, 2017, 4:15 AM UTC

landryraccoon wrote: post #332

aidenn0 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still think that proper self-driving cars are such a paradigm shift that predictions of how it will work are still up in the air. For example, right now I live on the west coast and my parents live on the east coast. 4 kids, Minimum of 40 hour drive or $3500 flight. Here's one tiny example: I can work remotely for a few weeks and my boss doesn't mind. The kids sleep for 8+ hours at night. Friday, Saturday, Sunday,…

> Car usage will go up by an order of magnitude because a major cost of driving isn't the dollars, but the time. This is why I think self driving cars will make traffic worse, not better. The more comfortable it is to be inside a car and the less people mind long car rides, the more people will drive (self driving or otherwise). If road infrastructure is the same, that necessarily means a much higher density of cars…

But will it be worse than taking public transportation?

In my experience Public transportation sucks. It's fine for getting around locally, but is terrible for commuting.

For a short 3 month period I found uberpool to be far superior to taking a train. Some days it cost a dollar more. Some days it cost less. The travel time was pretty much equivalent plus it was more comfortable.

I hate driving in rush hour traffic but as a passenger I didn't mind.