Earlier quoted context omitted.
MS really had rapid GUI development absolutely nailed in the late 90s. For some reason we forgot all that.
I was really surprised when I went and wanted to build a GUI app to find that everyone had abandoned the WYSIWG model completely. You can't just drag your controls over, set their properties, then build the code to drive everything. You have to manually wrestle with containers and whatnot even for desktop things. I could potentially see it as an acceptable tradeoff for wide device compatibility (things with substanti…
It’s time to kill the web app
431–440 of 717 posts
Re: It’s time to kill the web app
#432Earlier quoted context omitted.
As the other commenter said, flexbox and gridbox help alleviate many issues that used to be commonly raised a few years back. Check out Yoga [0]. It's a small layout engine based on flexbox and the CSS box moel. It doesn't cover all use-cases, but it's pretty powerful for its size. I It's important to remember that CSS and the DOM was initially created and developed with certain kinds of documents in mind. Both are c…
What bothers me is that I can't make rules with the same expressive power as a regex. Also css lacks properties for controlling wrapping limits and non-linear image scaling. And for some reason I always have to optimize on either width or height, I can't control both perfectly.
I'm unclear on what you mean by wrapping limits and non-linear image scaling. Could you provide an example of what you'd like to achieve?
As for having to optimize for width or height. Have you looked into display: grid? I believe it may help enable the kind of layout you're interesting in achieving.
Re: It’s time to kill the web app
#433I find this unconvincing. Every negative thing said about the web is true of every other platform, so far. It just seems to ignore how bad software has always been (on average). "Web development is slowly reinventing the 1990's." The 90s were slowly reinventing UNIX and stuff invented at Bell Labs. "Web apps are impossible to secure." Programs in the 90s were written in C and C++. C is impossible to secure. C++ is im…
Yeah, this is why everybody clicks on the comments link first.
Re: It’s time to kill the web app
#434Earlier quoted context omitted.
SQL injection attacks are an excellent example where code and data are mixed. One solution is to do a lot of clever escaping of 'attackable' characters that instruct the DBMS to stop treating a character string as data and start executing things [1]. Escaping attackable characters attempts to partition data from code. This usually works but not perfectly. Or, run your data through stored procedures instead. It took m…
> I finally figured out it was because a stored procedure does exactly what the grandparent post says: It treats all inputs as data with no possibility to run as code. This isn't well defined. Take this pseudocode stored procedure (OK, it's a python function): def retrieve_relevant_data(user_input): if user_input == 1: return BACKING_STORE[5] elif user_input == 2: perform_side_effects() return BACKING_STORE[1] else:…
Re: It’s time to kill the web app
#435Let me take a step back. Internet, in my view, is the ultimate manifestation of FREEDOM. Everything is/was free:
* Access to internet is free after you have paid your ISP. Almost everything that has been digitized is available on the internet for free. You could change ISPs and everything still worked.
* There was hardly any government control over the internet. They wished. However, it is designed in such a beautiful way that there are very few central systems. This makes the internet very tough to control (unless of course you are China).
* The real estate on the internet was also very cheap. You could buy a domain name in $10, a cheap server in $5 and go online with your site.
* There was no limit on number of sites you could visit. These sites could not steal your data. They could store some of their own data at your end but not steal much. Once you close the site, they cannot send you any popups or notifications. They cannot run in background and monitor your activity. Track your location, speed, acceleration etc.
* Better still, you could write blog posts which millions could read and cost you zilch. There were these things called RSS feed, which made it even unnecessary to go to sites to read content on them. You could just subscribe to RSS feeds.
* In fact, you could link to other people's property and it was encouraged. People who visited your site, could easily hop to any other site you linked to. You did not have to pay anything for it.
* HTML was written in a way that made even sloppy code work. HTML was so dead simple that anybody could make a site in it. No lock-in. Almost all code written for one browser worked in all browsers. There were tonnes of browsers. This sloppy code could render on almost any device and browser. Again no lock-in. You could look into the html, css and javascript code of any site. It was free for all. Internet was the ultimate open source.
May be internet was too open to make money. So 'they' invented the app world. App economy is a dream for big companies. Huge user base, free & rich media push notifications, ability to steal the ultimate of user social graph (call logs, sms history) and on-ground sensors to enable steal very personal data of users. Lets have a look at this world as to how it compares to the internet.
* Internet fast speed lanes, internet.org, anti net neutrality deals. Enough said.
* Apps do share the internet. However are themselves in control of one company which makes it, one company which distributes it.
* Apps have already made it impossible for a part time hobby dev to produce and maintain 3-4 different apps. Hardly anybody I know, knows obj-c and java both very well.
* Apps have made it difficult to have more than 20-30 of them on your phone. More than that and your phone would be left with no space. Once these select 20 are there, you are locked into them. They steal your data and periodically push you notifications! A we just love them.
* We first managed to kill RSS. I remember there was a huge campaign one time which demeaned RSS. Google then killed reader for no apparent reason. Is the internet world a puppet show ?
* Apps cannot link to other apps. You cannot link to particular page/screen of particular app in a generic way unless the other app wants it and allows it. There exists no generic way to do it. The standard way could be that you talk to the other app dev, sign a contract with them and possibly even pay them. Linking is dead.
* Apps are not free. They are locked in to a platform. If you want to port your code, you would need to rewrite the whole code base. (hybrid apps don't seem like they are happening)
I think we are witnessing end of internet as we knew it. Companies are suddenly trying to kill browsers and generic internet. They are trying to invent a proprietary walled garden internet.
Re: It’s time to kill the web app
#436Earlier quoted context omitted.
VB6's form designer (and UI framework that underlies it) has one crucial problem: it has basically zero understanding of flexible layouts. As a result, things break as soon as you try to make an easily resizable window, or font size or family changes (even if it's something as simple as accommodating high DPI), or you localize the dialog and some strings become longer. This lack of support for anything other than har…
> it has basically zero understanding of flexible layouts. That's largely a non-issue to me. If I need anything fancy, I'll draw it myself. The simple stuff ought to be simple. > As a result, things break as soon as you try to make an easily resizable window Au contraire! It is much easier to make a resizable window when you are in full control of how nested widgets are resized along with it. That being said, some au…
Exactly. At least 90% of the functionality of my forms-based applications use nothing more than the standard UI components Tk provided in the early '90s. Why the web of 2017 still cannot grasp this is unfathomable. To be perfectly honest, I've never seen any toolkit match the productivity of Tcl's Tk of more than two decades ago, and it's even better today:
Re: It’s time to kill the web app
#437Fun fact: The colorful Windows 98 explorer sidebar that is shown in the first screenshot was implemented as HTML (and Javascript), along with the desktop background (called active desktop).
Re: It’s time to kill the web app
#438It's worth remembering that in the late 1990s, as Microsoft was facing its own security crisis and everybody hated the Wintel monopoly and how bloated Windows had become, several people put out calls for new systems to replace Windows. This was the era of Java applets, of Linux on the desktop, and of cross-platform widget libraries like Qt and WxWidgets. What we actually got instead was the Web. And the reason we got…
Re: It’s time to kill the web app
#439An article about the web and it doesn't mention quintessential terms like 'link', 'network' or 'platform independence' even once. Do you know why your 1990s app was so much 'better' than today's web apps? Because it was only supposed to run on Microsoft Windows, and a specific version of Windows at that! The same applies to layouts. If all you have to deal with is SVGA and Windows 95 layout constraints are a piece of…
I worked on an ebook editing tool in 2013 that only supported the two most recent versions of Chrome. If you have a product that is truly valuable to your customers, they will install dependencies to make it work.
Re: It’s time to kill the web app
#440Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Not some simple Flask endpoint? I don't even know what a "Flask endpoint" is. Actually I barely know what Webpack and React are either.
Flask is a Python framework for web servers. It's like 5 minutes to a HelloWorld webpage
yum install -y httpd && echo 'Hello, World.' >/var/www/html/index.html && systemctl start httpd
Or assuming that you want something in python echo 'Hello, World.' > index.html && python -m http.server