Why Germans pay cash for almost everything • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#431

Post by ryanlol » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 8:13 PM UTC

romwell wrote: post #291

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cash workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - I get a 10 EUR note from my trouser pocket - Cashier gives back money - I put money in trouser pocket - Done - Home: I put all spare money in a large glass jar Credit card workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - You look in your wallet/purse - You swipe card/insert in chip reader - You insert PIN number - You shield your PIN entrie from the people next to…

Note for the American readers: in the glorious lands across the ocean, chip cards of all kinds use a PIN instead of a signature, which makes way more sense anyway. Chip & sign is an American abomination.

Note for the European readers:

You can call your bank, get your card switched over to Freedom™ mode and enjoy faster payments.

Might not want to do this with a debit however.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#432

Post by kuschku » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 8:24 PM UTC

germanier wrote: post #396

kuschku wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only since the EU limited the fees. Until 2016, neither ALDI nor LIDL nor REWE nor PENNY nor Edeka nor Coop supported it.

I know it's nitpicking but Rewe has accepted credit cards since 2007.

Some REWEs have, but not all. There's still some where I live that don't. (REWE eG is a cooperative, so it's all a bit more complicated)

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#433

Post by elihu » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 8:24 PM UTC

jupp0r wrote: post #52

As a German, I think ot's always intersting to get an outsiders perspective. The article strikes me as absurd, though. There is a deep caution against technology here, especially if it's foreign technology. There were numerous attempts by German banks to reinvent the wheel with incompatible payment systems (Geldkarte, ...) none of which could be used for online payment. All of them failed. I would also counter the ef…

I'm glad you brought up the privacy thing. I don't know much about Germany specifically, but people not wanting to create an electronic trail of financial transactions seems like a reasonable explanation for at least some people to be avoiding credit cards.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#434

Post by hocuspocus » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 8:48 PM UTC

ryanlol wrote: post #431

romwell wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note for the American readers: in the glorious lands across the ocean, chip cards of all kinds use a PIN instead of a signature, which makes way more sense anyway. Chip & sign is an American abomination.

Note for the European readers: You can call your bank, get your card switched over to Freedom™ mode and enjoy faster payments. Might not want to do this with a debit however.

I have a credit card from Luxembourg that is somehow set up to ask for signature, even though it can do PIN just fine, and I really don't recommend this setting in Europe, it's a massive pain in the ass since most merchants aren't equipped to deal with that. You end up having to sign the merchant's receipt with a pen like you're back in 1970, it takes a lot more time than entering your PIN (or better yet, contactless without PIN these days).

(And I did complain to their customer service, but they won't change the setting).

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#435

Post by vxNsr » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 8:55 PM UTC

codegeek wrote: post #94

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German a.) I mostly pay cash because it's faster b.) some shops that can afford it only have cash payments to save on CC costs Not because of inflation or because something happend 100y ago.

As an american, I find it strange that cash is faster. Most people who pay cash need to wait to get the change back unless they know the total beforehand and happen to have exact change. In the US, credit card machines are very fast even the chip enabled ones. Cash workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - You look in your wallet/purse - You spend time counting exact change if you do have it - If not, you take…

How about the NFC (Apple/Samsung Pay) workflow:

- Tap phone (that's already in your hand because you were aimlessly swiping while standing in line) to terminal with finger on fingerprint reader while cashier is ringing up items

- Tap confirm and sign once all items rung up

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#436

Post by bathory » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 9:01 PM UTC

m_mueller wrote: post #33

As a Swiss German I think the currency stability argument is moot. Swiss Frank is one of the most stable currencies available and we still have a similar attitude to cash as Germans. IMO it's mainly due to the following reasons: 1) CC is slow, at least in Switzerland. Like in Germany, efficiency is baked into the culture - people hate to wait on someone paying his chocolate bar with credit card. It's also not rare fo…

2.) I think this applies to the Netherlands as well, but there debit-card payments are the de facto standard. Some supermarkets even have tills which only accept debit cards.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#437

Post by NamTaf » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 9:14 PM UTC

I see Australia mentioned in second place. That doesn't marry with my experience, which is seeing card dominate cash due to the early and very widespread uptake of contactless payment without pin or anything under $100. This makes it faster than anything else for coffee, taxis, etc.

To see cash sitting at 65% simply doesn't align with my everyday experience. Maybe it's the legions of baby boomers in the suburbs? I don't know. I would've suggested Australia would've been 1/3 or 1/4 cash payment.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#438

Post by NamTaf » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 9:17 PM UTC

danudey wrote: post #311

rubicon33 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit cards don't require a PIN. Just get a credit card and pay it off every month. Free points!

Chip cards in most places in the world require a PIN. It's only the US where (I've ever seen) chip-and-signature (which is a horrible and flawed implementation).

Australia: Tap for anything under $100, no PIN, choose whether or not you want a receipt, done.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#439

Post by gozur88 » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 9:20 PM UTC

conanbatt wrote: post #119

codegeek wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an american, I find it strange that cash is faster. Most people who pay cash need to wait to get the change back unless they know the total beforehand and happen to have exact change. In the US, credit card machines are very fast even the chip enabled ones. Cash workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - You look in your wallet/purse - You spend time counting exact change if you do have it - If not, you take…

In america prices are always cent-specific (2.85, 3.78). Berlin, much like Argentina (cash strong markets) have rounded prices for everything, its actually much faster. What ist errible is the waste of time going to an atm frequently, or handling lots of petty coins or bills. Cards are definitely more convenient.

Cards used to be more convenient in the US. But once they started putting in the chips the verification process takes ages. I can complete the whole transaction in cash in the time it takes the chip reader to get itself sorted.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#440

Post by jimmaswell » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 9:21 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #256

killerpopiller wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also suspect tax avoidance rather than transaction costs

Transaction costs for cash is probably higher than for credit cards. For cash you have to count and recount that cash at the end of the shift, and then the bank counts are recounts it again. This is a significant amount of labor. By contrast with a card once the initial transaction is done everything is put into the computer electronically and no human has to look at it again. Also cash is subject to theft. In some l…

The cash is counted by machines at banks, which I'm pretty sure almost never make an error doing so, and I'm sure it's less often than human counting error.