Live data from Hacker News

A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

visa.lafrenchtech.com

431–440 of 751 posts

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considerably more - that's surprising. Would you mind breaking out more exact numbers?

Just to use round numbers, here is a breakdown for a single person making $120k/yr in California at a typical tech company. Monthly gross income: $10000 Federal tax $1494 Medicare $144 Social Security $616 CA Income Tax $751 CA Disability $89 Pretax deductions: Medical $56 Dental $5 Vision $2 Monthly take-home amount: $6843 (68.4% of gross)

> Just to use round numbers, here is a breakdown for a single person making $120k/yr in California at a typical tech company.

Is that total cost to employer for that employee? Or are there additional expenses that are not considered part of employee gross income but instead fall under "employer pays for them" category?

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#432
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm French and I agree with this. I left a long time ago. Add: - the absurd administration burden to do anything - the absurd prices of anything in Paris - the lack of consideration for anything that is not in Paris - the denial of your rights because there might be some terrorists No way, no reviens Leon.

What if I don't want to live in Paris? After all, there are other cities, yes?

Let's make it simple:

Paris has maybe 10% of the tech scene of London.

Lyon (2nd city of France) has maybe 10% of the tech scene of Paris.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I made over $200,000 in 2016. This is more than the Prime Minister and President make in France. This kind of braggadocio statement is why the hate for tech workers is growing. It shows a serious lack of perspective and an incredible amount of arrogance and condescension. It's also very untypical, even for a skilled tech worker in America.

We are literally in a forum discussing tech worker salaries. Yes, I make an amount of money that puts me in an extremely high percentile relative to the world population. But pointing that out in a context where it's completely relevant is just conversation, not bragging. Do you think I go around showing my W2 to random financially struggling strangers, or something? I don't. By the way it's not as atypical as you mi…

This is great. Though I must say that more than few people here believe they deserve $200K+ pay for next generation CRUD app.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but it comes with access to top-notch free healthcare Does it cover stuff like cosmetic dermatology, full dental plan (implants) ? I don't live in France, I lived in different EU countries and every time I needed something the "free health care" meant I had to pay participation fee and wait 6 months walking around appointments and ended up going private clinic. I basically got 0 value out it, considering I'm young a…

>Pension contributions and retirement benefits I live in the US with H1B. I still pay Social Security, and Medicare/aid every paycheck. Don't you? Isn't it the same as what you said? Paying into a social system that probably won't be in a shape to pay you later?

I don't know why people assume I live in the US :/ I have no idea how the US system works in practice, I'm just saying to the OP that as a person who did emigrate for work within EU the arguments he listed mean very little to me.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#435
post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other than GDP (which frankly benefits 5% of US population), everything is better in France. Better roads, better public transportation, high speed rails, healthcare, education. Even small and remote villages in France have high quality roads, rail connections etc. and doesn't look run down and entrenched in poverty.

GDP only benefits 5% of the population? Oh really. That doesn't sound right at all given the fact that the US median disposable income is far higher than France. Not to mention the median wage growth is four to five times faster in the US than in France. So much for your theory. Demographically France is about 80% white. The US median white household has an income of $73,000 as of 2016 ($108,000 with a college educat…

You're so wrong on each and every point that I don't know what to tell you, man.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have only three years of experience as a software engineer. I made over $200,000 in 2016. This is more than the Prime Minister and President make in France. I also have health insurance provided by my employer. Granted, I only get four weeks of paid leave, which is less than would be typical for a French person, but not by a dramatic amount. I would understand your point if the raw salaries were closer with France'…

> get cancer, or accident, or kids > financial life ruined in the EU, not so much.

Did you miss the part where he said he had health insurance paid for by his employer?

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#437

Raw salary comparisons miss the point : you can't really compare pre-tax salaries between countries with such a completely different taxation and benefits structure. The take home pay certainly is much, much lower in France than in the US, but it comes with access to top-notch free healthcare, free university, pension contributions, 5-7 weeks paid leave and generous unemployment insurance amongst other things. It all…

I've never found the healthcare argument to be relevant. Software Engineers in the USA usually have generous health care plans provided by their employers. Same with vacation time.

Continuity of insurance is an issue. My wife currently requires a fairly expensive drug (thousand+ per dose), and gets 1-3 months supply at a time. With insurance, it's quite affordable. (separate rant)

Every time I switch employers, or my employers switch insurance, it begins a long process of getting the right info (the insurance always contracts out specialty drugs), then getting that info to the doctors office (Drs offices, btw, never make it easy to talk to someone), then the doctor has to send the info to the right insurance company (rare is the doctors office that follows through the first time), then the insurance company will sit on it for a while (I've heard crazy things like "it takes 48 hours before we can confirm that we got the fax, and only then can we begin to 'process' the fax, which can take 1 day to 1 week"), and probably reject it. Then I have to find out this happened (this is absurdly difficult), then the drs office can appeal. Last time the appeal actually involved my wife's doc talking to an insurance company doc on the phone! Thankfully, her doctor is unusually reachable and was willing to do this.

So, generally speaking, it takes 1-2 months before she can get the medication that prevents her from being effectively crippled. since the previous insurance gave 1-3 months at a time, she often ends up falling behind on doses when this occurs.

I've had 2 jobs in the last 5 years, but 5 insurance companies (my companies kept spinning off or getting absorbed), and each time the process was stressful, even though each health care plan was quite good, relative to most of the US. So I can see a healthcare argument as being highly relevant.

Add in those that work 1099 or other such arrangements, and it matters more.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#438

Raw salary comparisons miss the point : you can't really compare pre-tax salaries between countries with such a completely different taxation and benefits structure. The take home pay certainly is much, much lower in France than in the US, but it comes with access to top-notch free healthcare, free university, pension contributions, 5-7 weeks paid leave and generous unemployment insurance amongst other things. It all…

>but it comes with access to top-notch free healthcare Does it cover stuff like cosmetic dermatology, full dental plan (implants) ? I don't live in France, I lived in different EU countries and every time I needed something the "free health care" meant I had to pay participation fee and wait 6 months walking around appointments and ended up going private clinic. I basically got 0 value out it, considering I'm young a…

> I basically got 0 value out it, considering I'm young and healthy I would not have to pay much for insurance, you're mostly footing the bill for the pensioners.

Wait, what? What if you are diagnosed with a major illness? Are in a major car accident? etc, etc.

The problem in the US is that people who are otherwise comfortable and healthy have their entire fortunes turn around, for the rest of their lives, due to unforeseen illness/incidents.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#439
post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but it comes with access to top-notch free healthcare Does it cover stuff like cosmetic dermatology, full dental plan (implants) ? I don't live in France, I lived in different EU countries and every time I needed something the "free health care" meant I had to pay participation fee and wait 6 months walking around appointments and ended up going private clinic. I basically got 0 value out it, considering I'm young a…

Free university is a big deal if you move your family.

I keep joking with my kids that they need to prepare for university in Europe somewhere... I think I would have loved the experience of it in my past, but I hesitate to force that upon them now.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#440
post #42
post #4

Does anyone know how big of an impediment is not knowing French? EDIT: I should have articulated my question better by saying "in the short term." I agree its foolish to not learn the local language if you plan on staying. But if the office language is French that is going to be almost a non-starter for someone who doesn't already speak it. It can be intimidating enough changing jobs in your native language. I know S…

French here. You have to learn french, people in the french administration aren't going to communicate with in you English. Obviously in Paris more and more people know English since it's a touristic area. But it isn't like Berlin,Amsterdam or Brussels where you can live with very little local language knowledge. Correct french is a pain in the ass to learn, the language is needlessly complicated. Frankly If I were a…

> people in the french administration aren't going to communicate with in you English.

They won't communicate in French either. They bark at you. And you bark at them. Whoever barks the louder wins.

Post reply on HN