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SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

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Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#431

Post by blackrose »

chris_wot wrote: post #407
blackrose wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was obviously being anecdotal. Asking for a citation on it is like asking for a professional food critic's review on a cheeseburger that your friend just ate and said was "really good." It's pedantic and condescending when OP obviously has some experience with the situation based on their profession.

Nothing you've just stated negates the fact that personal accounts are only generalizable when backed by additional sources and/or data. If there are 25,000 homeless and an EMT sees 1000 homeless people in a year (which I'd say I'm probably vastly over estimating) in situations where they are in greatest need, then all you have is a limited anecdotal view of a small proportion of the total population of homeless peop…

What is the point of being this pedantic? He said: in my experience, most of the homeless are not looking for help to find jobs and/or contribute to society in manner that will lead them out of "homelessness."

Let's look again: in my experience, most of the homeless are not looking for help to find jobs

And again: in my experience

In case you missed it: IN MY EXPERIENCE

He then goes on to explain his experience! It's called an anecdote. It doesn't mean it's generalizable. It means it's a data point, like saying a cheeseburger is "good." I don't preface every subjective, anecdotal statement with, "In my personal experience, but without citation or empirical data to back it up." He said all he needed, to where if you're asking for citation, you either lack reading comprehension skills or are just being a dick.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#432

Post by ryanlol »

nkrisc wrote: post #376
ryanlol wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the hell does empathy have to do with this? He isn't blaming the homeless, he's blaming the city. He's asking for the city to address homelessness problem, how could possibly interpret that as lack of empathy?

I didn't at all get any sense from his letter that he wanted to help the homeless, but that as long as he didn't ever have to actually see or interact with people down on their luck, he'd be happy. If all the homeless in San Francisco mysteriously "disappeared" one day, would he care? That may not be a fair question as we can't truly answer it, but I'd wager "no."

Why does that matter? He didn't explicitly state that, is not expressing your sympathy towards the homeless reprehensible now?

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#433

Post by daenz »

chris_wot wrote: post #430
daenz wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can cherry-pick from his letter, but it's obvious that his first concern is about safety: > Worst of all, it is unsafe. > The residents of this amazing city no longer feel safe. > I shouldn’t have to worry about being accosted.

Nice cherry-picking.

Extrapolating that the guy doesn't care about people from 1 quote As the quantity of cherry picking approaches the number of possible quotes in an article, the conveyed meaning approaches the meaning the article as a whole.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#434

Post by chris_wot »

daenz wrote: post #433
chris_wot wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice cherry-picking.

Extrapolating that the guy doesn't care about people from 1 quote As the quantity of cherry picking approaches the number of possible quotes in an article, the conveyed meaning approaches the meaning the article as a whole.

As I said, nice cherry-picking.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#435

Post by chris_wot »

blackrose wrote: post #431
chris_wot wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing you've just stated negates the fact that personal accounts are only generalizable when backed by additional sources and/or data. If there are 25,000 homeless and an EMT sees 1000 homeless people in a year (which I'd say I'm probably vastly over estimating) in situations where they are in greatest need, then all you have is a limited anecdotal view of a small proportion of the total population of homeless peop…

What is the point of being this pedantic? He said: in my experience, most of the homeless are not looking for help to find jobs and/or contribute to society in manner that will lead them out of "homelessness." Let's look again: in my experience, most of the homeless are not looking for help to find jobs And again: in my experience In case you missed it: IN MY EXPERIENCE He then goes on to explain his experience ! It'…

Your own reading comprehension seems rather lacking. All that was being said was that it would to good to get empirical data to see if the anecdotal evidence presented is backed up - it's good to validate the perceptions of the person on the coal face. Nobody is being dickish here, though you are getting very close.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#436

Post by dang »

rodgerd wrote: post #378
marknutter wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the 'mob' you're talking about is called 'civilization'. Really? Because it doesn't feel very civilized to me. It's a public lynching. You can express your differing opinion about the problem and the potential solutions, but to spend the majority of an article publicly ridiculing someone for a poorly worded expression of frustration is completely disgusting. > It's not 'growing fervor around [...] political correct…

> It's a public lynching. This is hysterical nonsense and makes you look deranged.

I think that's excessive. marknutter's comments were passionate and yes he was venting. But the key concept in what he wrote—"daily boost of self-righteousness"—is absolutely a thing, and unawareness of it makes all of this much worse.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#437

Post by dang »

civilian wrote: post #423
marknutter wrote: post #240

This fucking sucks. I know Justin personally, and to see the vitriol being spewed forth at him makes my stomach churn. His blog post was clearly written out of frustration, and lacked nuance, but in no way does it justify the response it has received. None of these scathing articles or drive-by tweets are asking for clarification. Instead, his character is being assassinated as an extension of the growing fervor arou…

I'm with you, the witchhunts need to end. Even if the bluetribe is correct in their beliefs, the mob action is not persuasive. I have less respect than ever for liberals because of this disrespectful way of handling public discourse.

It's a mistake to see this phenomenon as bound to any political position. It's a human trait and we all do it, we just do it about different things.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#438

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

mindslight wrote: post #427
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #189

For all the shelters, clinics, and every other initiative to help homeless people "get back on their feet," we shouldn't forget two simple facts: 1: San Francisco is a great city and the winters won't kill you, so it's an attractive destination for everyone, especially the homeless. 2: Some people prefer to be homeless. No amount of detox or "good drugs" will ever change them. I have a radical idea: pay homeless peop…

You might be on to something here, in that the incentives are completely changed. Rather than cooperatively funding programs, adversarially fund programs - create competition for who can serve the homeless the best, elsewhere . The "enforcement" aspect isn't even really necessary - just give out this income often enough and far enough away from the city that traveling back and forth every time is impractical. I'm ima…

The important distinction is that this plan should be privately funded. Otherwise it would take vital public money that's used to help people truly in need.

Everybody falls on hard times. Some more than worse. The mayor of my town was homeless for a while, and he truly brings a sympathetic ear to the stubborn and persistent problems with homelessness (not just the homeless themselves).

My idea is that people on the margins of productive (job-having, self-supporting, tax-paying) society should live there, but in doing so, they are provided the resources to maintain their dignity and, if they so choose, find the help to rejoin productive society.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#439

Post by maratd »

chris_wot wrote: post #413
maratd wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not rude to question assumptions or to ask where someone gets their data from. It is absolutely rude to demand proof in a conversation. And this is a forum for having conversations. A conversation isn't a research project or the pursuit of absolute truth. It's merely a social convention to find out what others are thinking and feeling. To go around telling people they're liars or to ask them to prove that they…

Well, then, we have a fundamental difference of opinion. If I see someone make claims that the vast majority of homeless people are completely unhelpable because of a specific example which they have observed anecdotally, then I'll ask for empirical evidence. Nobody is calling that person a liar. Asking someone for evidence does not necessarily mean they consider that person a liar. They may believe they are mistaken…

> You should ask yourself why you consider asking for evidence on a discussion forum rude. It sounds like you feel it's overly confrontational.

I already answered this question, multiple times. It has nothing to do with being confrontational.

It has to do with being RUDE.

Rude: discourteous or impolite, especially in a deliberate way [1]

[1] http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rude

Nobody owes you ANY citations. You are being LAZY by demanding them. That LAZINESS is RUDE. If you disagree with someone, get off your lazy ass, go on Google, find evidence to the contrary and share. If you're too lazy to do that, then STFU instead of posting "citation needed". That doesn't add to the discussion. It's nothing more than an expression of displeasure with absolutely no effort to enhance the conversation.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#440

Post by 13thLetter »

Great: now that we've all gotten to enjoy a Two Minutes' Hate against the official evil figure of the dreaded !!TechBro!!, we can all go home and step over the derelicts lying in the doorways of our gated communities, happy that we've really helped those poor unfortunates.

This really is a good example of how toxic outrage culture gets in the way of solving problems. Maybe this guy was self-centered talking only about how much trouble the homeless cause him. Okay, say he was. And? If he's cowed into silence by the great armies of Twitter, has that put one more street person into an apartment or methadone clinic?

I'm reminded of that flap about a British business that had homeless people sleeping on the benches on their property, and switched them out for benches it was not possible to sleep on, and was lambasted for it. It really is a singularity of modern awfulness: we won't do anything to make people not be homeless, but we'll yell at (some other) hapless person across the city until they surrender and make sure the homeless have cold metal benches in front of their building to freeze to death on, as is their human right.

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