Live data from Hacker News

Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

brave.com

431–440 of 580 posts

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#431
post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I write blog posts from time to time and I do it for pleasure because I enjoy writing about things that interest me and sharing it with others. I do the same thing, but I realized a while back there is a flaw in this model. It means the available creative works—which in turn effectively means the engine of culture—is determined almost entirely by people who are well-off enough to have the free time to do that. I do…

>It means the available creative works—which in turn effectively means the engine of culture—is determined almost entirely by people who are well-off enough to have the free time to do that. From where I sit, that's the problem ad-supported media has, not the other way around. Look at TV before Netflix/iTunes/etc. came along. It was pretty much a crap-fest of lowest-common-denominator programming that was created bas…

> It was pretty much a crap-fest of lowest-common-denominator programming

You're describing the vast majority of the content on Netflix today.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you are describing is called Flattr. It was launched in 2010 and never went anywhere, like every other micropayment service.

Flattr is still running and is used by more than a few major webcomics (presumably other sites as well, I've only really looked at it for webcomics). Granted it never took off like it wanted to, but Patreon operates on a similar model and is absolutely booming right now. Several comic artists I'm aware of have been able to quit their jobs and go full-time on the strength of Patreon alone--A Ghost Story, for example.…

Yup,a huge amount to of my artist friends are on it. Honestly it sounds like the best option - you take the "whales" who are hyper engaged with your content and have them fund it. If the new york times had a system where you could get benefits, no ads, and some exclusive access or perhaps editorial votes for a relatively high monthly fee I'll bet they'd get a LOT of takers.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#433
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That works both ways. In the UK, presumably elsewhere too, there are long running themed adverts - they drive me nuts on the occasions that I don't hit the mute button soon enough. Brits will know the mongooses, and the two marathon runners, supposedly humorous - incessant, for years on end. Never, ever will I use those services.

Ugh, I'm right with you. When I renewed my car insurance recently, I avoided using either of the 2 comparison sites for exactly that reason. I wonder if brands ever do market research on the number of people actively repelled by their adverts.

The people who won't buy after the advert "wouldn't have bought it anyways"

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#434
post #421
post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's use an example I face every day. I work in an industry that by in large doesn't hire women or black people. So yes, I'm around people who are very racist and very sexist every day - It's pretty fucking important for me to be able to function socially around people who have political views I consider to be abhorrent - people who act on those beliefs every day. Would a better course of action be for me to leave t…

Thanks for answering. The point you're bringing up -- the value of being able to function in a world among people with a wide variety of beliefs that conflict with yours when you have no choice and not much power to effect change -- is totally valid. I thought you were extrapolating from that to argue that we shouldn't take action when we can. In the case of Eich, the power happened to be social pressure, and it was…

> I thought you were arguing against that result on the grounds that people should have had more "tolerance for diversity of thought," namely the thought that gay people shoudn't have full marriage equality, with a political action to support it.

I do think that people should be able to have abhorrent political ideas, and should be able to take the legal political action they like, without fear of personal retaliation.

We have a process, a set of rules and laws for deciding what to do when you and I disagree on what is right for other people. This is what our political system is for; to solve these sorts of disputes in a organized way, without degenerating into war or lynching or what have you. I mean, it doesn't always work... but the political system is the tool for the problem, and while not perfect, it's a pretty good tool. Certainly, it's the best tool we have; people should be encouraged to use it rather than direct action, I think.

Actually, I think the anti-gay-marriage proposition is a good example of our political system working as intended. Sure, it passed, because embarrassingly, that's just how most people in my state feel. But... because we have several layers of laws specifically set up to prevent the majority from simply shitting on a minority, (and I thought the anti-gay marriage thing was especially ugly just because it was one of those laws that shat upon the minority without even bringing the majority benefits.) the law got struck down in the courts. In my opinion? this is exactly what should have happened.

Next, I really do think that diversity of ideas and diversity of values is a good thing, even ideas and values that I deeply disagree with. If you really want diversity of ideas, you're gonna need some religious people. I know it doesn't feel that way on HN, or even really in silicon valley, but atheists are the minority here, and while I certainly don't recommend believing any religion, I think that you need to understand religion and understand people who are religious to really understand humanity, and I think my life would be poorer if I excluded all religious people.

Religion has a lot of ugliness to it because humanity has a lot of ugliness to it. You understand humanity, you need to see this, to see the ugly parts and the beautiful parts and the parts that are just plain weird.

Now I'm not saying you shouldn't call people out for being sexist or racist... you should. And my own policy is to do so in person, as I see it. - I think a "hey, that's not acceptable" isn't so threatening as to make it so I can't work in industry, and I think it does have some corrective effect. It also means that I can continue having a relationship with the person in question.

As a matter of policy, I try not to do this in written media[1]. I'm not certain this is the right thing to do or not, honestly, but its a course of action that allows me to speak my conscience and still function in a world of diverse values.

[1]post-hoc edit: by 'written media' I mean any place that would get the person I'm calling out in actual trouble. Again, I don't know if this is the right thing to do or not, but we all make our choices.

second edit: my previous post, with the example, really only makes sense in the context that I think that you are more personally responsible for direct action you take than for political action you support... e.g. directly doing something evil is worse, in my belief system, than simply supporting a political cause that is evil.

I realize that not everyone accepts this, but I think that because the political system is fundamentally a system for discussion and dispute resolution, and has some built-in safeguards, I think that makes proposing terrible ideas less bad than simply implementing said terrible ideas on your own authority.

last edit:

I want to acknowledge the question you bring up here, which I read as: "Is this (accepting people who have abhorrent values) actually a good thing? or is it just something I tell myself so that I can function in society? Is this just my rationalization?"

To which I shrug and say that you have gotten too deep. I'm not sure I like the implications of either possible answer there.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#435
post #70

I will repeat this one more time, because Eich seems to be missing the point.[1] I don't adblock for privacy, security, or speed. Those are just nice-side effects. I adblock because I do not want to be manipulated into buying things I do not need. I wonder what would happen if, as a society, we said, "enough, no more ads". Would it really be the capitalist apocalypse that the ad industry is trying to make us believe…

I get your point, and it is a good one. We have a micro payments channel to publishers, frictionless and anonymous, under construction, for folks who want no ads and who will pay. Other users than you will be able to mix and match, too: better and more private ads on sites they don't support, with a revenue share to these users that they can spend on sites they do. We aren't saying "only ads". We do see ads as a nece…

Does your browser block JavaScript? Because your claims of protecting users from tracking are baseless without that.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#436
post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would love to see micropayments replace ads. I don't know much about the technical reality of it, but I've thought that an effective micropayments system could be revolutionary, one of thhe most important innovations in tech: 1) It could be a way of financing an incredible amount of essential work that current funding models fail, because the payments are one-off and not worth the high trasaction costs (in fees a…

Micropayments already exists for journalism in the form of Blendle and others. It isn't as effective as you might hope: https://medium.com/@wfederman/micropayments-for-news-article... (key takeaway from that article: people are moving away from micropayments where they already exist (e.g. music) to subscription models. It doesn't work)

Blendle is NOT micropayments. I looked at Blendle the other day when someone posted about it. Blendle wants you to pay 25 cents for an article and then, after reading about it, think and decide if it was worth the money or if you want a refund.

First, micropayments are less than a penny (the "micro" part). Anything 25 cents is just a payment.

Second, 25 cents means I can quickly bump into my monthly/yearly maximums and have to start cutting back on my reading each month and year end. I don't want to go each October-December without being able to read the web just because I overspent on marginal articles earlier in the year.

The model that will work (for me anyway) is one like Netflix. I pay essentially a yearly fee and can consume as much as I want. Bingeing, if you will, when I desire. But only if, again like Netflix, a significant portion of the web is included. If I have to pay for five or six subscriptions it's a no-go because it gets too expensive.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Media got worse as the revenue streams dried up; if you pay for writing, you can expect much better writing. I generally find that I'm better off spending an hour researching books to purchase on a non-programming subject than I am spending that hour Googling for free content on that subject.

I have payed nothing for PGs essays or slate star codex epically detailed tear-downs of published studies. They are among the best writing I have read. I have payed nothing to the people on youtube who shown me how to fold a shirt, do my hair, make pasta easily, chop food like a chef or whatever else I needed help with; granted those aren't writing per-say, but a decade ago I would have found that information in a bl…

Your quality bar is extraordinarily, painfully low.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#438
post #70

I will repeat this one more time, because Eich seems to be missing the point.[1] I don't adblock for privacy, security, or speed. Those are just nice-side effects. I adblock because I do not want to be manipulated into buying things I do not need. I wonder what would happen if, as a society, we said, "enough, no more ads". Would it really be the capitalist apocalypse that the ad industry is trying to make us believe…

I genuinely enjoy very well targeted advertising. It has actually made my life more enjoyable.

It's happened to me on Facebook a couple times where there has been an advertisement for something that scratched an exact itch I didn't know there was a solution for.

Honestly, I think if you're against ads, you just aren't getting good ones.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Media got worse as the revenue streams dried up; if you pay for writing, you can expect much better writing. I generally find that I'm better off spending an hour researching books to purchase on a non-programming subject than I am spending that hour Googling for free content on that subject.

Sure, I buy books all the time. That is very different to the bubblegum content I read online which would fall under the micro-payments model though.

Bubblegum content appeared in direct response to the death of the traditional revenue streams.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#440
post #70

I will repeat this one more time, because Eich seems to be missing the point.[1] I don't adblock for privacy, security, or speed. Those are just nice-side effects. I adblock because I do not want to be manipulated into buying things I do not need. I wonder what would happen if, as a society, we said, "enough, no more ads". Would it really be the capitalist apocalypse that the ad industry is trying to make us believe…

Then ads would slip into the "independent" news articles you read every day. All information disemination is advertising, it's part of our nature.

Tin foil hats are not going to save you, but a good judgement will.

Post reply on HN