weird to think about, but what if the scenario had been different and her account was hacked? How would it have gone, would there have been any vindication or recovery or would she have ended up in the same boat?
How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life
421–430 of 596 posts
Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life
#422Earlier quoted context omitted.
How do you define "baby"?
For the record, I don't think the author was actually trying to defend that point, but instead to highlight how when taken out of context or in hindsight any one of our behaviors could in the future be seen as a real, unambiguously "wrong" act.
Yes, I'm likewise highlighting that there's a gray area in that particular question, unlike the other question.
Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life
#423Earlier quoted context omitted.
Provided without comment, here's Cantrill on Twitter relatively recently criticizing Linus Torvalds' "idiocy" in a usenet post from 2000: https://twitter.com/bcantrill/status/456540342649487361
He acknowledges that in the replies, but this particular "idiocy" is not one of tone, behavior, or offense. It is about bad technical policy in the pursuit of ego, which is something that Linus has done several times since. (And he's a brilliant enough kernel hacker that he can work around his own bad policy and still come up with a system that works well, but that doesn't mean it's not bad technical policy. I feel b…
It's funny you should mention that, as that episode from nearly 20 years ago (!!) has come up much more in the last year than it did in the two decades prior. Of course, the reason is not an accident; it's a direct result of those who
vehemently disagree with my handling of the Noordhuis pronoun incident.
Anyway, your request is entirely fair, and let me be clear that I (obviously?) regret the have-you-ever-kissed-a-girl response (which was actually an obscure Saturday Night Live reference). I was young, and it was stupid -- and I regretted it shortly thereafter, for whatever it's worth. I have never actually met David in person, but if I did, the first thing I would do would be to look him in the eye and apologize.
That said, I do think that this is contrast to the Noordhuis incident. I know that this position is not popular here (and that I will be downvoted into oblivion), and that it's likely foolish to revisit this, but just to make clear my position: I am understanding (very understanding, given my own history) of gaffes made on the internet. The Noordhuis issue, however, was not a gaffe: it's not that he rejected the pull request (that's arguably a gaffe), it's that when he was overruled by Isaac some hours later, he unilaterally reverted Isaac's commit. (And, it must be said, sent a very nasty private note to make clear that this was no accident.) This transcended gaffe, and it became an issue of principle -- one that I feel strongly about. So what I wrote at the time was entirely honest, and it is something that I absolutely stand by -- more than ever, actually.
The inarguably contrast is this: I regretted the have-you-ever-kissed-a-girl response; I do not and will not regret my handling of the Noordhuis incident -- and any company that would not employ me over this is a company that I would not want to work for.
Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life
#424The sad thing is the history of America is sprinkled with a few stories of angry armed mobs of people storming jails, overpowering the guards, and physically freeing people whom the public believed had been wrongfully imprisoned. That took balls. Now, mob justice is used to tear people down for writing some quip in poor taste. What a shame.
I've actually given a lot of thought to things like this, having worked with someone whom I despised due to a complete lack of tact and decorum. Despite the fact that I would never ever want to work with or be associated with this person again in any way, he still has the right to earn a living and contribute his skills to society. In fact, I would argue that most if not all the people he has offended over the years would not actually feel good about "justice" being served if he were fired and/or out of work.
This is also why I've never had twitter, never will, and only use facebook passively. There is no upside; anything you say can and will be used against you.
If you're a band announcing a tour date, or a food truck sharing your location, sure, but if you are trying to be a commentator or funny guy to gain a following, it will probably just blow up in your face like this eventually.
The good news is that you don't have to use twitter. This is only a problem if you allow it to be one for you. There are plenty of other effective means of communication.
Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life
#425Earlier quoted context omitted.
This and many other problems are instantly rectified when one stops using shit like twitter or fb. Communicating with friends? fine, perfectly acceptable, PM or share with some reduced circle. Trying to be funny in the world where someone could get butthurt over a joke that was snooped from the conversation not intended for their ears? You're asking for it (for the lack of better wording). And yes I do realize the ir…
A tweet is not part of a private conversation and the user in question should have known that - particularly considering their profession. Twitter & FB aren't the problem. A lack of awareness and judgement is.
I would say 80% of people on here have shown a little lack of awareness and judgement at least once on HN.
Have you ever posted a joke that might offend?
Have you ever linked to one or more past projects?
Are you aware that you can not delete your account or your posts?
Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life
#426Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The ex-Mozilla CEO knows this well. An online bullying campaign was launched against him and he was forced to quit. Hahahahahahaha no. Eich paid money to political campaigns to ensure that some of his own employees and fellow citizens would not have basic human rights. Then, he refused to apologize for it and dodged the question when asked if he would do it again. That's not "expressing an opinion," that's nearly s…
>That kind of person does not belong in a position of power That position of power, and Mozilla as a whole, would likely never have existed without Eich.
Good point, what other forms of hate should we allow him to express without consequences? :)
Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life
#427This is the reality of social media. If you offend the wrong person, you will most likely get fired from your job and or get unwanted attention in other parts of your life..all for just expressing an opinion. It's essentially online bullying by people that want to silence you for having an opinion that is different than their own. The ex-Mozilla CEO knows this well. An online bullying campaign was launched against hi…
> The ex-Mozilla CEO knows this well. An online bullying campaign was launched against him and he was forced to quit. It's kind of weird to think that Brendan Eich is still active in the web standards community, even though he's been forced to leave Mozilla. A man without a company.
Given his past contributions to the web, it's unsurprising that he still participates and people listen to him.
Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life
#428Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, as a sometimes Cubs fan, I have to say Steve deserved what he got.
As a fellow Cubs fan, you're dead wrong. The play Bartman disrupted didn't advance any runners. It was a foul ball. Cubs were up 3-0, with one out. Had Moises Alou caught the ball, there would have been two outs. The Marlins proceeded to score 4 runs before the second out occurred, and another 4 before the third. Bartman didn't throw a wild pitch, or commit a fielding error, or give up 5 hits and eight runs. The Cubs…
Yes, but all that happened after the Bartman incident. Pre Bartman, expected runs were 0.69. If Alou makes that catch, expected runs drop by over 50% to 0.33.
http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/users/brooks/public_html/feda/datas...
Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life
#429Earlier quoted context omitted.
> To repeat: she did not deserve ANY bullying or harassment whatsoever. That wasn't clear. You said the "outcome was fair" - the outcome was that her life was ruined.
I also said: No one deserves to be bullied or harassed but consequences need to exist to actions. I meant the outcome from a professional standpoint was fair. I don't believe how her life has been "ruined" as I've explained elsewhere.
Clearly the person who fired her only did so because of public outcry, i.e. the bullying. That was in their best interest. It wasn't fair. It wasn't a consequence equal to her action. It may have been equal to the reaction to her tweet, but that reaction was unjust.
The consequences of the bullying, given her being fired, is much worse than if she was not fired. Her ability to compete in the workplace has been severely diminished because of this. Her PTSD that she will probably suffer for a long time has been greatly exacerbated by her firing.
Given the worst intention of her tweet (ignorance), getting fired was still not the right reaction to her "crime."
Do people need to be held accountable to their actions? I agree that they should. Outside of criminal law (since this wasn't criminal), the mob is not the right group to decide what the correct consequence of her actions should be. History shows that this leads to barbarism, which this was a case of.
She didn't get what was coming to her, she got much worse.
Re: How One Stupid Tweet Blew Up Justine Sacco’s Life
#430Earlier quoted context omitted.
>That kind of person does not belong in a position of power That position of power, and Mozilla as a whole, would likely never have existed without Eich.
Good point, what other forms of hate should we allow him to express without consequences? :)
What would you recommend the consequences should be for Barack Obama, given he publicly held the view that Eich privately held?