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France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

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Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#421
In America we have amazing, reliable communication systems (postal, sms, email, telephone) that are rendered horribly degraded in terms of their actual usability because we allow them to be clogged with filth.

When you buy a car in the US, there's an entire industry of psuedo-scammers that scrapes the new vehicle registration data and will send you letters soliciting you to buy a "warranty" with horrible terms and pricing, which are intentionally crafted to look like they come from the dealership, manufacturer, or a more reputable insurance company. This is just one example, the only silver lining is that junk mail has existed for long enough that even most senior citizens understand that they need to be skeptical of anything they receive.

SMS and Email is a constant adversarial game where you will be inundated with scams, advertising, political solicitations, and all other manner of noise as you try to combat it with spam filters, blocklists, hidemyemail, burner addresses all the while hoping you don't miss an important communication from someone you actually care about.

As for phones, scam calls and telemarketing has gotten so bad that most people will not answer a call from an unknown number unless they're expecting to hear from someone (e.g. doctor, mechanic). But lots of older people still hold onto the unfortunately outdated cultural norm that you always pick up the phone when it rings, and that's one of the most common attack vectors for scamming the elderly.

I think it's critical that people understand that it does NOT have to be like this. The US has a business regulatory regime that biases towards letting an entity get away with pretty much anything, and alternatives exist even among capitalist countries.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#422

Kudos to France. But the problem isn't telemarketing calls. It's the wholesale grab-fest of phone numbers from every.damn.nook.and.crany of the US soil. Hospitals, Car dealers, dentists, vets, brokerages, title offices... literally EVERY one of them is leaking YOUR information to everyone in the world. within a week of closing a deal on my house i get a scam paper mail that almost looked legit asking me to pay $100 t…

In US, deed is public (grantor name, grantee name, property id). That’s probably how the scammers knew that you are involved in a recently recorded deed, and offered to send you a copy if you pay them.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most countries have these no call lists but they are fairly useless as there is no enforcement. I've even heard stories of some scammers exclusively using such lists, as they are pre-verified!

> Most countries have these no call lists but they are fairly useless as there is no enforcement What country are you in that it doesn't work in? I know for a fact it works in Spain and Sweden, but it'll really depend on the country. You'd help by others by being a bit more explicit :) > I've even heard stories of some scammers exclusively using such lists, as they are pre-verified! That does suck and seems counter-p…

In Spain I have recently been getting far more robo scam calls. New several a week.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#424
post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can imagine quite a few scenarios in which I prefer for those companies to be able to reach me.

Why? What situations do you need a doctor to use a synchronous, interrupting, unscheduled communication medium for, where the situation is not serious enough for you to already be in the hospital? My doctors can communicate asynchronously through the MyChart app/website (the app is fairly terrible, I would rather them just use email, but oh well) where I can read and respond when it makes sense for me. Any test that…

A loved one being treated in the ER? A concerning test result turning up, requiring me to come in soon? A spot for a treatment I've been queueing for becoming available last-minute?

Email can be unreliable and slow.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#425

This is a great move by France, but most of the rest of the world does not suffer from the telemarketing scam hell that Americans do. I am a US citizen living overseas. I have a US cell number that is only used for 2FA for US financial institutions. No one else has that number. I get more scam calls every day on that number than I do in a year on my local number. It's crazy. Most of the world has solved the worst of…

> Most of the world has solved the worst of the problem by simply not allowing caller-ID spoofing and by blocking bad actors I live in the Netherlands, and I get several spoofed crypto-scam calls every day. I have also stopped picking up the phone for numbers I don't recognize. My own telephone number has been used to call others for a while, so I would get tons of "sorry I was busy, what did you call about?" return…

> As far as I know, the only reason spoofing is even possible, is so that call centers in other countries can pretend to be calling from a local number, which.. why is that even a feature?

It is very common for each individual phone in a call center to have a direct inward dial number, but when they dial out they want the main support contact number to be displayed so you can get routed appropriately and not harass their tech support employee.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#426
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont think unknown numbers should be allowed at all, esp for business. I think its a reasonable requirement that if a business wants to call someone they are willing to identify them self.

Yeah, Spain went this route. We used to get telemarketing calls from random mobile phone numbers (or straight up "hidden" number), so was hard to really know where they came from, unless the person admitted it in the phone call. A year or so that was made illegal, and now every "unwanted telemarketing" call has to come from a landline with a regional code, or the toll-free numbers, which leads to them actually having…

My own bank in Spain calls me constantly cold from landlines.

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#427
post #11

Great idea! Telemarketers have ruined the phone network for me. I haven't answered an unknown call for the past 10 years, which sometimes means I miss important ones. 99.9% of all calls are an attempt to get money, and the 0.1% that's a dentist appointment, a friend that changed numbers or whatever become collateral damage. A ban is the right idea but I wonder how they can handle it, logistically. I think there needs…

I think most legitimate businesses have moved away from phone calls for exactly this reason. In lots of countries they use whatsapp

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#428

Kudos to France. But the problem isn't telemarketing calls. It's the wholesale grab-fest of phone numbers from every.damn.nook.and.crany of the US soil. Hospitals, Car dealers, dentists, vets, brokerages, title offices... literally EVERY one of them is leaking YOUR information to everyone in the world. within a week of closing a deal on my house i get a scam paper mail that almost looked legit asking me to pay $100 t…

I think the problem is that you can’t create virtual, domain separated, phone numbers on demand

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#429
Until this law is ever applied, I warmly recommend my fellow french to install the «saracroche» app to filter out unsollicited calls.

It’s free, open source, all my family uses it for about 2 months now and it just works.

Btw, if it’s creator read this : thanks A LOT ! :)

https://saracroche.org/fr/

Re: France to ban unsolicited telemarketing calls

#430
Unless you can block illegal unsolicited scam/marketing calls, the medium of phone calls is dead to me.

If it had 25% unsolicited calls, it would be a bad way to communicate, and in the US it's more like 95%. You could cut the majority of spam calls and I'd still associate phone calls as mostly a waste of time.

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