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Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

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Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#421

Post by petre »

cynicalreason wrote: post #374
dist-epoch wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Romania is not very digitalized, and it still has a lot of paper bureaucracy. Even if the digital records were completely lost, they still have the paper ones. > being unable to prove land ownership People know who owns what, there are also paper contracts of ownership which are more authoritative than the digital records.

Reconstructing that archive from the records would be close to impossible. The documents they issue and banks/notaries and others have have 30 day expires. In theory most of these documents are issued on sale / mortgages / loans against these type of assets. Both notaries and banks have their own record system - I don't think there's a common system they all use, for notaries I'm not sure if they keep electronic reco…

> I'm not sure if they keep electronic records of these papers .. the system that was hacked was supposed to be it.

Nope. Thye just keep the papers archived in binders. Maye the banks also keep electorinic records, the notaries are a the paper keeping and issuing public service.

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#422

Post by ghaff »

dredmorbius wrote: post #416
hinkley wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Odd that a terrorist attack achieved what historical knowledge of flood and earthquake damage did not.

Earthquakes and floods tend not to specifically target major banking and information centres. Terrorist attacks have intentionality. That said: San Francisco / Silicon Valley are home to both tech and an active seismic zone, and there's long been a tacit understanding that data centres are best located (or at least backed up) at quite some distance. One large brokerage firm located at the time in downtown SF had its…

I've been out of direct involvement in the space for a while, but my understanding that Arizona nad parts of Nevada were probably the safest locations with respect to natural disasters that could affect data centers.

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#423

Post by ghaff »

hinkley wrote: post #271
ajb wrote: post #171

The UK used to have a distributed system - everyone had to have a solicitor store "deeds" of their property, which were a sort of paper blockchain of all the transactions the land had been in since - I don't know, since records began I guess. Since we got a centralised land registry cheaper solicitors have binned these, but some properties still have them as a historical record.

You’ll see this as a plot device in some Regency pieces. Someone gets ahold of the physical deed to a property and now there’s drama.

There also used to be bearer bonds. In part because of concerns about money laundering, a lot of more or less untraceable large monetary instruments have gone away.

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#424

Post by dredmorbius »

ghaff wrote: post #422
dredmorbius wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Earthquakes and floods tend not to specifically target major banking and information centres. Terrorist attacks have intentionality. That said: San Francisco / Silicon Valley are home to both tech and an active seismic zone, and there's long been a tacit understanding that data centres are best located (or at least backed up) at quite some distance. One large brokerage firm located at the time in downtown SF had its…

I've been out of direct involvement in the space for a while, but my understanding that Arizona nad parts of Nevada were probably the safest locations with respect to natural disasters that could affect data centers.

Absent heatwaves and water shortages, generally, yes.

Pros: Cheap land, generally predictable weather, few severe storms, little seismic activity, reasonably close to population centres (Phoenix, Tuscon, Las Vegas).

Cons: Little water, wildfire hazard, heat, sand and dust storms.

Inland northern locations (Dakotas, say) might also work. Moderate tornado risk, cooler weather (particularly in winter). Subject to winter storms, but generally more water availability. Technical populations might be difficult to recruit.

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#425

Post by ghaff »

dredmorbius wrote: post #424
ghaff wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been out of direct involvement in the space for a while, but my understanding that Arizona nad parts of Nevada were probably the safest locations with respect to natural disasters that could affect data centers.

Absent heatwaves and water shortages, generally, yes. Pros: Cheap land, generally predictable weather, few severe storms, little seismic activity, reasonably close to population centres (Phoenix, Tuscon, Las Vegas). Cons: Little water, wildfire hazard, heat, sand and dust storms. Inland northern locations (Dakotas, say) might also work. Moderate tornado risk, cooler weather (particularly in winter). Subject to winter…

Water is definitely an issue--I thought it and didn't write it down. The heat, yes, but also a dry heat :-) so some evaporative cooking; I think Intel has at least one fab plant in Arizona. As I say, no longer really in the space, but areas of the northern Midwest not subject to flooding are possibilities. For datacenters, onsite technical staff is not really an issue as datacenters have very little of that after initial construction.

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#426

Post by hinkley »

ghaff wrote: post #423
hinkley wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ll see this as a plot device in some Regency pieces. Someone gets ahold of the physical deed to a property and now there’s drama.

There also used to be bearer bonds. In part because of concerns about money laundering, a lot of more or less untraceable large monetary instruments have gone away.

Those started with money changers and long distance travel did they not?

Before phones, if you moved between two affluent areas there was enough surplus capital in both that instead of hauling a heavy chest of silver coins between them and risking getting Robin Hooded you turn your coins in at one end of the trip and get reimbursed by a fellow in the same money handling cooperative at the other end, and then they would square their books through traders moving money the opposite direction or if necessary by armed escort.

There are MMO economies that either ban the flow of real money into the game, or only allow it to enter the game and not leave. In the case of the latter, poorer players trade their time and skill for something transferable in the game, such as rare items, or in the case of Eve Online, one free month of play time. There are Eve players who only ever payed for the first couple months in the game and then found a revenue stream that was subsidized by other players buying excess play time and selling it in-game when the demand drives the price up high enough to be attractive.

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#427

Post by hinkley »

ghaff wrote: post #422
dredmorbius wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Earthquakes and floods tend not to specifically target major banking and information centres. Terrorist attacks have intentionality. That said: San Francisco / Silicon Valley are home to both tech and an active seismic zone, and there's long been a tacit understanding that data centres are best located (or at least backed up) at quite some distance. One large brokerage firm located at the time in downtown SF had its…

I've been out of direct involvement in the space for a while, but my understanding that Arizona nad parts of Nevada were probably the safest locations with respect to natural disasters that could affect data centers.

That was why they wanted to store nuclear waste in a hole in a mine in Nevada, but then someone found a fault line that we didn't know much about.

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#428

Post by singleshot_ »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #337
singleshot_ wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recorded deed will more or less universally contain a legal description of the land. This does, in fact, defined the illegal outline of the parcel. A survey is little more than marching out into the field and putting at the location where you believe the boundaries to be based on your review of the legal description. Of course that’s not the end of the discussion as to boundaries for reasons like adverse possession o…

Very place dependent and not so universal in my experience. Where I live the title/deed just has street address. A completely separate agency holds the plot map that links addresses to physical measurements.

“plat map”

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#429

Post by ghaff »

hinkley wrote: post #426
ghaff wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There also used to be bearer bonds. In part because of concerns about money laundering, a lot of more or less untraceable large monetary instruments have gone away.

Those started with money changers and long distance travel did they not? Before phones, if you moved between two affluent areas there was enough surplus capital in both that instead of hauling a heavy chest of silver coins between them and risking getting Robin Hooded you turn your coins in at one end of the trip and get reimbursed by a fellow in the same money handling cooperative at the other end, and then they wou…

I don't really know the history but physical bonds and stock certificates were things within my lifetime. Safety deposit boxes for such were also a thing.I've never had one but my parents certainly did.

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#430

Post by ghaff »

hinkley wrote: post #427
ghaff wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been out of direct involvement in the space for a while, but my understanding that Arizona nad parts of Nevada were probably the safest locations with respect to natural disasters that could affect data centers.

That was why they wanted to store nuclear waste in a hole in a mine in Nevada, but then someone found a fault line that we didn't know much about.

There have also (rarely) been intra-fault earthquakes. A fairly large one in Kansas if I recall correctly.
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