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If you are asking for human attention, demonstrate human effort

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Re: If you are asking for human attention, demonstrate human effort

#421

Post by doctorpangloss »

jappgar wrote: post #340
gwd wrote: post #335

"Don't expend more effort than they are" has actually long been a good principle to have internalized. Someone done only cursory research before asking a question on a mailing list? Give a cursory answer. Someone obviously spent hours trying to figure things out on their own? Give them a good chunk of your time. Someone on HN responding to you with single-sentence responses? Either don't respond, or respond in kind.…

It takes considerable energy to train models and run inference. You can't dismiss AI generated content as "low effort", but you can dismiss it as a wasteful diversion.

@dang it's too bad the most interesting single comment in this whole thread is grayed out. as much as i love reading the same thing written 1,200 different ways, maybe the whole system needs to be revisited

Re: If you are asking for human attention, demonstrate human effort

#422

Post by Finnucane »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #48

This headline has been seeing some popularity. But it's never made any sense. This is just the labor theory of value, applied to documents. The labor theory of value doesn't work for documents any more than it works for anything else. If I do something that's easy for me, and it's valuable to you, you'll still want it. If I do something that's difficult for me, it will be less valuable to you, because the difficulty…

If you get a document from someone and they say "I have no idea if this has any value and I couldn't be arsed to check," it's not unreasonable to presume that it probably has no value.

Re: If you are asking for human attention, demonstrate human effort

#423

Post by necovek »

swiftcoder wrote: post #276
meta_gunslinger wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comprehensive end-to-end tests and CI can only attest to correctness , most engineers worth their salt won't review code only in regards to that aspect though.

In the bad old days before auto-formatters and linters, PRs were heavily used to enforce style guidelines. If we can enforce both style and correctness in our CI pipeline, what is actually left?

As said already: readability and maintainability of the code (closely related) are two most important values a code review can get you.

Re: If you are asking for human attention, demonstrate human effort

#424

Post by TallGuyShort »

toss1 wrote: post #405
gwd wrote: post #335

"Don't expend more effort than they are" has actually long been a good principle to have internalized. Someone done only cursory research before asking a question on a mailing list? Give a cursory answer. Someone obviously spent hours trying to figure things out on their own? Give them a good chunk of your time. Someone on HN responding to you with single-sentence responses? Either don't respond, or respond in kind.…

Yup. The most concise version I've heard of this, which I find useful for many situations, is: "If it isn't important to you, it isn't important to me."

"Use your brain before you use mine"

Re: If you are asking for human attention, demonstrate human effort

#425

Post by bluGill »

necovek wrote: post #410
Bootvis wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For him, the cost of editing was much larger. Condensing your writing in his time meant rewriting it more concisely, requiring strictly more time than collecting his thoughts as he went. With LLM's, we are in a new state of the world: it can expand any one sentence off hand remark in an essay.

You seem to be talking about how one can expand information into useless babbling, whereas you are responding to a comment about condensing information into true essence.

This is about human attention and what is worth getting it. Both points are very important and valid.

Re: If you are asking for human attention, demonstrate human effort

#427

Post by monkeydust »

gwd wrote: post #335

"Don't expend more effort than they are" has actually long been a good principle to have internalized. Someone done only cursory research before asking a question on a mailing list? Give a cursory answer. Someone obviously spent hours trying to figure things out on their own? Give them a good chunk of your time. Someone on HN responding to you with single-sentence responses? Either don't respond, or respond in kind.…

AI has collapsed the cost of producing content while leaving the cost of reviewing, verifying higher imho. This has inverted the economics of collaboration. Reviewer attention, not output volume, is now the scarce resource, this happened with my engineering teams (PR reviews) and is now happening in my world in Product.

Re: If you are asking for human attention, demonstrate human effort

#428

Post by lenerdenator »

When I read things like this, I wonder how, exactly, people have time for this sort of thing these days.

Lots of companies are led by people who think that GenAI should increase productivity and are going to make damn sure that it is. There's no room to figure out things like "etiquette" for how to pass along AI-generated content to coworkers.

Re: If you are asking for human attention, demonstrate human effort

#429

Post by lewispollard »

jappgar wrote: post #340
gwd wrote: post #335

"Don't expend more effort than they are" has actually long been a good principle to have internalized. Someone done only cursory research before asking a question on a mailing list? Give a cursory answer. Someone obviously spent hours trying to figure things out on their own? Give them a good chunk of your time. Someone on HN responding to you with single-sentence responses? Either don't respond, or respond in kind.…

It takes considerable energy to train models and run inference. You can't dismiss AI generated content as "low effort", but you can dismiss it as a wasteful diversion.

That's like saying that low effort human-generated posts are worth your time because the phones and computers they're writing on take a lot of time and effort to build from scratch.

Re: If you are asking for human attention, demonstrate human effort

#430

Post by dennysora-main »

I interacting with others, I still read through the entire post and its arguments.

And I write my replies before, I often have a LLM check for any errors or miss thing.

LLM can help me catch blind spots or mistake.

I think LLMs can't replace our own thinking. For me, an LLM is good tools for discuss ideas and talk me more knowledge.

My english is bad, but can help the LLM tto translate paper, help me quick get the infomation.

I like face to face talk with others, Can help me triggers deep thinking and funny

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