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AI is slowing down

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Re: AI is slowing down

#421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He would begin somewhere–statistics on AI demand, say–and then walk the calculations carefully over to the next step–maybe revenue needed for profitability by AI companies–and you could follow the argument. That's exactly what the first (titled) section does?

Haha thought you were referring to the upsell at the start asking to subscribe to the newsletter for $70 / year. But yes it does call out the unprecedented amount of money getting dumped into AI. What turned me off though was this paragraph: > This is a hysterical era perpetuated by liars, cowards, imbeciles, craven boosters and the easily-fooled. Those excited about generative AI are either the victim or the perpetr…

> Haha thought you were referring to the upsell at the start asking to subscribe to the newsletter for $70 / year.

People like you would be why I put "(titled)" in the reply.

> That's a very bold claim. Really anyone excited about generative AI dude? That's just an absurd claim, and makes it sound like he hasn't used an LLM since GPT 3.5. It's just the language is so hyperbolic and angry that it's giving me more rant vibes that really hurt the tone and damage the (many valid) claims he's trying to make.

The premise is that AI is significantly more expensive than current subscription & token fees. Within that framing, yes basically all AI users are getting conned. Tricked into redesigning their workflow around an unaffordable technology, in the hopes there will be too much sunk cost and they'll just eat a thousands-a-month fee.

> Which isn't wrong, but also Anthropic's revenue increased from $1 billion in Dec. 2024 to $47 billion May of 2026. Which of course doesn't guarantee that it will continue to grow at that scale, but it's clear that there is a strong demand for what they are creating.

"Doesn't guarantee it will continue to grow" is an understatement.

Let's take a generous assumption of the average subscription; $1000/month/seat. This will be quite a bit higher than pretty much everything but hardcore software dev, we'll re-do the math with $200 in a moment. Let's also grab Ed's $60B figure for both Anthropic/OpenAI, as it's more generous.

That's 30 million subscribers for Anthropic, 30 million for OpenAI, 60 million total.

They need to 5x. So 240 million extra subscriptions.

... Are there 240 million people left on the planet who can afford $1000/month?? (Either directly, or their employer) This kind of scaling is already hitting the limits of people on the planet. That sounds ridiculous for "240 million people" against 8 billion, but remember that $1000/month is a lot of money and a lot of jobs just do not benefit from AI. 2/3rds of employment in the US is stuff that happens in the physical world. Claude won't restock shelves, manufacture goods, construct buildings, cook food, or wipe geriatric asses.

Go again with $200/month. While this monthly fee is much more palatable, the sub-count inflates to 300 million subs needing to grow to 1.5 billion. They'd need to sell a sub to everyone in Europe and North America.

(And while there's loads of people in Africa and Asia, most of those are low income. You're not getting expensive AI subscriptions out of them or their employers either. China's obviously not gonna buy US AI, India has a GDP-per-capita of $250/month.)

Re: AI is slowing down

#422
post #410

Already many comments saying this but Ed Zitron is not a person I trust. He's been so biased and wrong on stuff that I consider very obvious and trivial that his complicated analysis with numbers and trends I can't just take at face value. As an example of obvious wrong things, I remember a tweet of his where he was mocking people talking about agents and agentic coding. He was kind of saying that he was going crazy…

He provided a lot of quantitative analysis in this article. Perhaps an example or two you think these numbers are off-base could help bolster this point?

I think the most compelling part of the article is that these numbers point to a situation where the level of investment required seems unsustainably high by plain dollars.

You don’t really have to agree with the author to see how it plays out. OpenAI and SpaceX and Anthropic need to go public this year to avoid running out of money. There’s no more private money, not enough to fund them. The IPO is the last funding round.

They can continue growing extremely quickly and AI can still be highly useful and maybe be transformative, but still not have the money to fund that growth.

That part he wrote about an AI company gone bust canceling their Oracle contract made Oracle feel like a Nortel analogy to me. If they have a sudden lapse with a big chunk of their customers they are writing down triple digit billions of dollars.

Re: AI is slowing down

#423
post #410

Already many comments saying this but Ed Zitron is not a person I trust. He's been so biased and wrong on stuff that I consider very obvious and trivial that his complicated analysis with numbers and trends I can't just take at face value. As an example of obvious wrong things, I remember a tweet of his where he was mocking people talking about agents and agentic coding. He was kind of saying that he was going crazy…

His numbers are based on sources that he says he doesn’t trust, which is quite interesting. While he may be directionally accurate (eg. The revenue needed to match the spend seems lofty at best) he seems to be mixing and matching numbers to create a worst case scenario that doesn’t necessarily line up with reality. Combined with his complete unwillingness to be open minded about anything even tangentially related to AI, and I can’t take him that seriously.

Publications love a doom and gloom rant, which is why he seems to have built an entire career on hysterical anti-ai screeds. It doesn’t mean that he’s right though.

Re: AI is slowing down

#424
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Uber $1,500/engineer/month thing is just the first signal we have had of the price companies may be willing to accept. This price will clearly vary wildly across professions, industries and geographies. I think it's a poor number to build an "AI is slowing down" narrative around.

Uber is not the only company that's putting a per-developer limit on AI spending. I know this because I work for another one (and we have a significantly lower limit). You just heard about Uber first because they're high profile.

I didn't say they were the only company, I said they were the "first signal".

The more signals the better! What cap did your company pick, and what geography / kind of industry are you in?

Re: AI is slowing down

#425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, judge the book by it's cover? It is literally judging the book by it's author, which is an extremely rationale judgement to make.

That's the exact opposite of rational. It is, in fact, a formal logical fallacy (ad hominem). His argument can be correct even if he himself is not typically correct.

What's the point of reading someone's writings on a subject where you know they're not typically correct? How would we know what we 'learn' from Ed is right?

Re: AI is slowing down

#426
post #410

Already many comments saying this but Ed Zitron is not a person I trust. He's been so biased and wrong on stuff that I consider very obvious and trivial that his complicated analysis with numbers and trends I can't just take at face value. As an example of obvious wrong things, I remember a tweet of his where he was mocking people talking about agents and agentic coding. He was kind of saying that he was going crazy…

He provided a lot of quantitative analysis in this article. Perhaps an example or two you think these numbers are off-base could help bolster this point? I think the most compelling part of the article is that these numbers point to a situation where the level of investment required seems unsustainably high by plain dollars. You don’t really have to agree with the author to see how it plays out. OpenAI and SpaceX and…

I guess what I'm saying is that I won't look at his numbers since he's an unreliable source from my point of view and there's a chance that he's going to try to deceive me and it's a waste of time for me to listen to him.

I do have other sources of information and I probably agree in general that AI companies are doing pretty shady financial shenanigans. I even think it's possible that openai is in real trouble. But I don't extrapolate that into "AI is useless", which is what he does.

Re: AI is slowing down

#427
post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will Apple's offering be providing any meaningful/significant benefit over just using GPT ? If not, don't expect any miracles. Judging by the announcements today about its integration into the OSes? They are offering useful things ChatGPT cannot offer unless they write an "everything app". One can (maybe should) make the argument that this is the browser monopoly again, but given that the USA has seemingly no inten…

Windows has been pushing the same thing hard without much success. Why do I care if AI is integrated into my OS when I can choose my preferred AI and it can use the OS directly?

This.

The other day I wrote up some notes for a presentation. Opened Google Slides, clicked the gemini button, pasted the notes in and asked it to make the slides. Nope; gemini can only modify a single slide at a time in Google Slides.

Pasted the same notes into claude, it wrote a pptx file, I imported that into Slides, job done.

Being integrated into the product doesn't always mean a better result.

Re: AI is slowing down

#428
Always a bit eyebrow-raising to me how much people focus on Ed’s style rather than his message, which is, broadly, that the tech industry is deeply morally corrupted. He struggles to speak about it without becoming impassioned, but I read it as incredulousness rather than baseless hyperbole: “How are you still investing in and working for companies like Meta, despite the overwhelming evidence that they are terrible company that does terrible things to people?”

Re: AI is slowing down

#429

One of the "smells" that gives away a quacky ranter is they speak in impassioned, "Why doesn't everyone understand this?" tones, but in fact their argument just doesn't flow. If Zitron's argument were as solid as he keeps saying it is, you would read it and understand it and see that it is solid. He would begin somewhere–statistics on AI demand, say–and then walk the calculations carefully over to the next step–maybe…

I kinda get it - he's been attacked for his negative views a lot, and that tends to produce a more passionate writing style. It's a little immature, sure, but also authentically human.

Re: AI is slowing down

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he doesn't need to understand the technology to point out the books are cooked. a business can sink in either way: the technology flops or the finances flop. he's arguing the /finances/ would flop. he doesn't argue that the /technology/ would flop, only that they can't come up with the money to pay their debters.

There is a piece of this I agree with. That you do not need to be a deep technical expert to notice that a company is burning cash by overcommitting to capex, or relying on heroic revenue projections that may or may not come to pass. But that is not the full argument he is making. If the claim is that the labs will not be able to pay their creditors because inference is structurally incapable of becoming profitable,…

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