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Can we have the day off?

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Re: Can we have the day off?

#421

Post by madrox »

shimman wrote: post #234
madrox wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, software engineers are usually considered exempt in the US, meaning they can be required to work more than 40 hours a week without overtime pay if employers choose to. Unless you're imagining congress do something. I want to shoot fireballs from my fingers, but unfortunately we don't live in a world of magic.

You can lobby Congress to do things, even better you can volunteer at campaigns and try to elect people to Congress that want to do these things. Acting like we are helpless and the future is determined is straight up loser talk while also not being historically accurate in the slightest. You should go read about people starting wildcat strikes while working in literal company towns. There is tremendous power when we…

You, too, can do these things. I welcome you to. I will be happy to say I am wrong. Unions have real potential for creating change. I personally have no interest in joining a union for other reasons, but I am not opposed to them either.

But we weren't talking about unions. We were talking about congress. I think you will find that tech workers are not the only job segment, and far from the most sympathetic due to their wages. Lobbying for an extra day off will not get you far in the face of many more pressing issues, and the party most likely to stand up for workers is more interested in stopping data centers at the moment. Unless you're talking about a time horizon past which I don't think I'll be around to notice.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#424

Post by dlev_pika »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #316
Avicebron wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don't understand why people make these hyperbolic jokes about guillotines. Violence is counterproductive; and not practical anyway. Joking about it just makes you feel great without actually doing anything. There is a simple alternative. Vote; and educate your family and friends. If you don't know what is on the ballot in the midterms, you are part of the problem. If you aren't starting a family conversation about…

I mean, it’s not something anonymous edgy twitter accounts have come up with. There is ample historic precedence on the trend.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." - Jefferson

Re: Can we have the day off?

#425

Post by Gigachad »

polisaez wrote: post #384
xiaoyu2006 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human had all the industrialization and stuff, yet we work 5 days / week now.

I was looking for facts to disprove your point, but it seems we actually work more than our ancestors. Medieval folks and hunter-gatherers had plenty of time off. It wasn't until the industrial revolution that we started extending our workweek. Here's a nice summary of how the workweek looked like, from the AskHistorians subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1rf0lb/comme...

I think the FIRE movement is a response to how absurd this is, but it feels kind of wrong that you have to front load all of the saving for your whole life in the first 30 years.

I'd love to work 3 days a week now and be paid a livable amount, rather than grind 5 days a week, getting paid more than I need so I can retire fast. But tech companies don't want you for 3 days a week, its 5 or nothing for most of them.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#426

Post by Ifkaluva »

sibeliuss wrote: post #391

Maybe a lot of this comes down to people are having fun building stuff in a way they weren't before? But i imagine this will all die down.

I like vibe coding for personal projects where the code is a throwaway, but I hate vibecoding at work when I later have to stake my reputation in validity of results, as well as maintain the resulting implementation.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#427

Post by madrox »

burnto wrote: post #419
madrox wrote: post #65

The four day work week is a prisoner's dilemma. If everyone did it, then we'd all get a payoff, but if someone defects to a longer work week they tend to get ahead at work. Thus we all do it and thus we all lose. It's funny how underappreciated it is how the five day work week is powered by norms...at least in the US. People assume there are laws about it. The only laws dictate compensation past certain thresholds, a…

My thinking tends to be that our standard work week is an equilibrium among a few different forces. We’re motivated by social norms, capital markets, and biological needs and wants. In places like the U.S. the market forces have been powerful enough to really shift social norms. In tandem they’re probably slowly altering our biology too.

I think you are right. It is practically baked into the American Dream.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#428

Post by nekusar »

jchw wrote: post #376
quadrifoliate wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why people make these hyperbolic jokes about guillotines. Violence is counterproductive; and not practical anyway. Joking about it just makes you feel great without actually doing anything. There is a simple alternative. Vote; and educate your family and friends. If you don't know what is on the ballot in the midterms, you are part of the problem. If you aren't starting a family conversation about…

I don't believe that activism actually generally works, and I am skeptical that voting works either. Don't get me wrong. I do vote, and I believe that voting and activism can work, and even still does for a variety of things. But as for fighting against forces of corruption and tyranny, I believe activism is about as useful as an ashtray on a motorcycle. Any grassroots efforts are in a horribly asymmetric battle agai…

> I don't know how the fuck these stupid Flock "safety" cameras got here, but I have a pretty good guess how they'll disappear.

Gee golly, I have no clue how the pole ended up being cut and the solar and cameras ended up smashed.

Must'a been an "accident".

Re: Can we have the day off?

#429

Post by Gigachad »

kevinsmith51 wrote: post #260
dyauspitr wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People waited around a lot before, and since the baseline speed for everything was slower, no one had an edge. Now everything is fast and instantaneous and that’s available to everyone. It’s part of the reason why our lives are so stressful now. I remember my parents working and their work had significantly less stress on a day-to-day basis. Everything was at a nice relaxed human pace. They would be responsible for o…

Environment doesn't impose stress on us. Our reaction to it does. Learn to control that response, can use it to your advantage when you choose to let it in.

There are certainly some environments that do. The data is clear that things like loud traffic noise increases stress.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#430

Post by 9rx »

jandrese wrote: post #236
raincole wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are paid for what they collectively output. The only reason that people seem to be paid by their time is that it's hard to measure each one's output individually and granularly.

That's not really true. Pay raises have lagged behind productivity gains for decades now and the gap is only growing wider.

Pay raises have kept pace with human productivity gains.

Robots have pushed productivity well beyond the human capacity. But robots are not willing to work for free either, so...

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