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AI subscriptions are a ticking time bomb for enterprise

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Re: AI subscriptions are a ticking time bomb for enterprise

#421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can ask an AI what it costs to produce an Opus token. The answer I got was $0.216/M Token. That takes into account hardware cost, power, cooling and hosting. Others have posted links here saying inference is about 30% of Anthropic's spend, the other 70% is R&D - things like developing the next model. If you take that into account, add a profit margin, and round to make the figures easy you end up with them sellin…

That's helpful, thanks! Once past IPO, I suspect the 70% -> R&D must shrink, right? I mean, to keep the stock afloat long term P/E must come down right? Public investors strike me as less willing to pour money into R&D, which is why I'm wondering about the timing of IPO in my initial question.

> Once past IPO, I suspect the 70% -> R&D must shrink, right? I mean, to keep the stock afloat long term P/E must come down right?

I dunno. Yes, the stock market dictates they get a return. But the return they get on that R&D isn't easy to determine. The return is high now. When you go from the previous best model only being able to find a handful of security issues, to the next model producing a flood so large Linus is screaming rage into the void complaining that his legion of helpers can't handle the flood of new CVEs (but he can't really blame anyone for this), development is going very fast. They haven't monetised the ability yet, but really does critical infrastructure have any choice now other than to get their entire codebase vetted by Mythos? How much is that monopoly worth? (Granted - it won't last long.)

Their R&D is aimed at discovering - well I'm not sure what you would call it, but it's the same thing that allows a mother to take a glance at her child and know what's troubling them, or a senior engineer to glance at code and spot a bug, or a same thing that a chess master to look at a chess board to produce a move in a second or so that defeats all but the best chess players. There are lots of these areas of expertise to be discovered. They are worth a lot of money. When does it stop?

A hyped exploration of this by bloomberge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmFKaqJg5X4

Re: AI subscriptions are a ticking time bomb for enterprise

#422
It's quite obvious that things are highly subsidized now. What will happen when subscriptions 10x in a year? That's that danger for the enterprise. I don't think the average enterprise will allow users to run local LLMs tbh. Just my POV feel free to tell me that I'm wrong!

Re: AI subscriptions are a ticking time bomb for enterprise

#423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> within a few years we will be running local models as good as today’s frontier models with almost no cost burden Based on what? The RAM requirements alone are extraordinary. No, running large models on shared, dedicated hosted hardware at full utilization is going to be vastly more cost-efficient for the foreseeable future.

Qwen 3.6 is virtually indistinguishable from Claude on my 5090

What kind of codebase do you work on (number of lines?). How many tokens does your local context support?

Maybe your statement is true for smaller codebases and shorter conversations, but I’d be surprised if you actually achieve good results on millions of lines of code with a million token context.

Granted if your setup works well for your workload then that’s all you need.

Re: AI subscriptions are a ticking time bomb for enterprise

#424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Print-outs are a physical good. Tokens aren't.

They are both fungible. You can replace one with the other.

How does that relate to my comment. I didn't say anything about the fungibility of either. Physical goods have wildly different logistical constraints compared to anything digital. This, and only this, I would argue, makes their production at home attractive to consumers. Tokens just don't have these properties.

Re: AI subscriptions are a ticking time bomb for enterprise

#425
post #17

TL;DR to save you time: 1. GenAI companies are making a loss in order to gain adoption and later lock-in 2. ??? 3. They're going to cash-in soon and start milking you now that business critical systems rely on GenAI The "???" denotes a complete failure to offer compelling arguments that link 1 and 3.

We popularized the term "enshittification" so we wouldn't have to keep explaining this.

Labels are how brains work, but they carry the inherent danger of eventually leading to lazy thinking. Usage must periodically be checked.

I don't see how this is exactly enshittification from the original definition of the word.

Re: AI subscriptions are a ticking time bomb for enterprise

#426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't know the parameters but it probably takes at least a H100 and possibly several to run a SOTA model. Given the pricing (25+k per H100 + hardware to run it) and power (700W per H100 + hardware to run it), I don't see how anyone except for a largish company can afford to run this.

Are you serious? It’s multiple nodes to run a frontier model (a node is 8x GPUs), and they aren’t running on H100s. You are looking at 32+ GPUs.

I was being pretty generous to the comment I was replying to. Needing 32+ H100s just strengthens my argument that people aren't going to run frontier models locally anytime soon.
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