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Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

kabir.au

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Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#421

Post by sokoloff »

jere wrote: post #409
ruszki wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it means capture the flag, then it means a completely different capture the flag for almost everybody. I searched for it, read the first paragraph, and I still don’t know what the fuck is the topic. According to Wikipedia it’s a very new meaning. I could figure out only because of searching for “HCKSYD” and others.

Is 30 years old very new? We're on a site for tech people. I would wager most are familiar with this term.

Most people on this site are also familiar with the “XKCD 10000”.

But not all, so: https://xkcd.com/1053/

(Amusingly, it even uses “30 years” as the timeframe.)

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#422

Post by fartfeatures »

xnickb wrote: post #418
fartfeatures wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is easier to search for keywords (Capture the Flag) vs acronyms (CTF) which likely resolve to other terms as well. Child trust fund is the first result when I put CTF into Google. Admittedly searching CTF security solves that issue. A quick link to an article on CTF to make the post digestible by outsiders seems reasonable enough.

Why should the author care to make it digestible to the crowd who is clueless on the matter? Their goal is to capture attention and start discussion within the community. To me it doesn't seem reasonable at all. It's just entitled at best.

I read it as a suggestion vs a demand but I can see why you felt it was entitled. The author doesn't need to care and can take or leave the advice. In many ways it is a shame we don't have the concept of the Semantic Web as an extension to simple Hyperlinks.

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#423

Post by daniel3303 »

baq wrote: post #44

Replace ‘CTF’ with ‘high school’ or ‘university’ and you’ve described the total slow motion collapse of education; the only saving grace is that most of it requires in person presence. We’ve figured out the human replacement pipeline it seems, but we haven’t figured out the eduction part. LLMs can be wonderful teachers, but the temptation to just tell it ‘do it for me’ is almost impossible to resist.

[flagged]

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#424

Post by ruszki »

jere wrote: post #409
ruszki wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it means capture the flag, then it means a completely different capture the flag for almost everybody. I searched for it, read the first paragraph, and I still don’t know what the fuck is the topic. According to Wikipedia it’s a very new meaning. I could figure out only because of searching for “HCKSYD” and others.

Is 30 years old very new? We're on a site for tech people. I would wager most are familiar with this term.

Its article is 5 years old… So, yeah, it’s new.

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#425

Post by briandear »

xnickb wrote: post #418
fartfeatures wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is easier to search for keywords (Capture the Flag) vs acronyms (CTF) which likely resolve to other terms as well. Child trust fund is the first result when I put CTF into Google. Admittedly searching CTF security solves that issue. A quick link to an article on CTF to make the post digestible by outsiders seems reasonable enough.

Why should the author care to make it digestible to the crowd who is clueless on the matter? Their goal is to capture attention and start discussion within the community. To me it doesn't seem reasonable at all. It's just entitled at best.

Good communication should be the goal of all writing.

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#426

Post by victorbjorklund »

oofbey wrote: post #136
CoastalCoder wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we should go a little deeper on this idea. We can all agree that both human "experts" and LLMs can sometimes be right, and sometimes be confidently wrong. But that doesn't imply that they're equally fit for purpose. It just means that we can't use that simple shortcut to conclude that one is inferior to the other. So where do we go from here?

I’ve always thought of the definition of “expert” as reliably knowing the difference between what is known, what is speculated but unproven, and what is unknown. People claim expertise in all sorts of things that they aren’t experts in. But true experts should not be wrong. They should qualify levels of certainty. This definition certainly works in the sciences.

In reality few humans are true experts on every topic they open their mouth on. A high school teacher in science is hardly a true expert in every single thing they teach.

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#427

Post by watt »

bawolff wrote: post #297
Nifty3929 wrote: post #296

Must I beg to have an acronym spelled out a least once, the first time it's used? Even if you assume 90% of readers already know, the other 10% (including me, in this case) will thank you, it doesn't take much effort, and it expands the reach of your communication or idea. Exceptions for cases where the acronym is just so well known that a lot of people don't even know what it stands for even though they know the con…

Which acronym do you mean? CTF? I think that acronym, just like BGP, is more well known by itself than what it stands for. More generally, not every piece of writing is meant for every audience. Like if someone writes a blog post about CTFs aimed at people who like CTFs, nobody in the target audience needs to have CTF explained to them. Ultimately HN is a link aggregator, but sometimes its a bit like eavesdropping on…

If you think you know what every acronym stands for, I recommend CBT.

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#428

Post by fg137 »

PunchyHamster wrote: post #347
0x20cowboy wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont know what CTF stands for so I dont know if I am interested in this article or learning anything about it. Maybe I am. Are you really arguing for not just typing out whatever 3 words this stands for once in the name of clarity?

it's the first result I get on anonymous google search. It's like complaining about not spelling C in "bake cake in 170 C"

My search results for "open CTF format" beg to differ. Absolutely nothing even remotely related to "capture the flag".

Bear in mind that Google search results, just like ChatGPT output, are highly personalized and non deterministic, so "it's there if you do a Google search" means almost nothing these days.

In fact, I have no idea what's going on, so I came back to HN comments. Turns out it's "capture the flag" which I actually know, just not familiar with the acronym.

Which is why I am 100% with the top level comment here.

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#429

Post by fg137 »

plaguuuuuu wrote: post #407
Nifty3929 wrote: post #296

Must I beg to have an acronym spelled out a least once, the first time it's used? Even if you assume 90% of readers already know, the other 10% (including me, in this case) will thank you, it doesn't take much effort, and it expands the reach of your communication or idea. Exceptions for cases where the acronym is just so well known that a lot of people don't even know what it stands for even though they know the con…

you could try * googling "CTF security" * asking literally any AI to explain the article Yes, you must beg. If you don't know what a CTF is, and don't want to find out , why read the article anyway

I had no idea "security" is the keyword to add, even after reading the leading paragraph and the first paragraph under "What makes me qualified to say this?".

In fact, I know what "capture the flag" is but am not familiar with the acronym. Still, the article confused the hell out of me, so I came back to HN comments for more context.

> Asking AI to explain the article

That's how we are expected to consume content these days?

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#430

Post by jedimastert »

skulk wrote: post #213
jaybrendansmith wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything we've learned in the last 10 years is telling us that computers do not help human education in the slightest. We remember better when we write with pen and paper. We learn better with whiteboards and paper books. The simple answer: Remove most computing from education entirely. Blue composition books, pencils, whiteboards is what trains humans. Calculators are helpful perhaps but it is quite possible that…

> computers do not help human education in the slightest I had no access to anyone who could teach me calculus as a kid except Khan Academy, so I think this is a gross exaggeration. But I agree in the end, that all my "real" learning did come from pen-and-paper practice, not watching videos.

That's not really a computer helping you though, that's just a computer allowing a human that's far away to help you right?
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