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AI should elevate your thinking, not replace it

koshyjohn.com

421–430 of 656 posts

Re: AI should elevate your thinking, not replace it

#421

I think AI can generally be utilized in two ways: 1) you use it to help write code that you still “own” and fully understand. 2) you use it as an abstraction layer to write and maintain the code for you. The code becomes a compile target in a sense. You would feel like it’s someone else’s code if you were asked to make changes without AI. I think 2) is fine for things like prototypes, examples, references. Things tha…

I use it both ways: 1) Day job 2) Side project It would be unprofessional to treat the first like the second.

I did the same. 2 was more of a curiosity, to see how quickly will it paint itself into corner. Maybe not there yet, but close enough that I consider taking over even for the side project.

Re: AI should elevate your thinking, not replace it

#422
post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To make an exhaustive list of possible options you need to find key questions that divide solution space. This requires logic, which LLMs lack.

> This requires logic, which LLMs lack. What? I've heard many takes on what AI lacks, but never this one. We had ChatGPT being able to solve an Erdős problem on its own yesterday [0]; how could you explain that if it cannot do logic? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47903126

LLM didn't solve an Erdos problem, it generated a text that a human looked at, cleaned up, corrected and used as base for a solution.

WRT logic, there a multiple occasions of LLMs answering incorrectly to trivial logic puzzles. Of course, with each occasion becoming public they are added to training data and overfitted on, but if you embed them in a more subtle way LLMs will fail again.

Re: AI should elevate your thinking, not replace it

#423

Just as the advent of palm-sized organizers reduced our ability to recall dozens and sometimes even 100s of phone numbers of friends etc, AI will reduce our ability to perform a range of functions. I think the evidence for this is quite clear. Humans are NOT going to expend any energy - even mental energy, to think about something if they don't have to.

Or Google Maps our ability to navigate when GPS signal is lost

But on the flip side of the coin, I've been traveling so much more since I got access to map software on my phone. Especially when vacationing abroad, remembering the days before smart phones, we would need to carefully plan specific attractions on a map ahead of time, and would generally not go far from these areas, unless we had the entire rest of the day available and didn't mind getting lost. But these days, I can be in a foreign city where I don't know more than a dozen words of the language and spontaneously pick a spot on the map and get there with local public transport in a very predictable time, being able to focus my time on deciding where I want to be, rather than how I get there.

Re: AI should elevate your thinking, not replace it

#424

There are plenty of engineers that couldn't work without a modern IDE or in languages without memory management. Or without the ability to use a library from GitHub / their package manager. It doesn't feel THAT much different to me. "Engineer" as a term might drift. There are "web developers" that can only use webflow / wordpress.

Engineer as a term has already drifted vastly since nobody in the field of "Software Engineering" is actually an Engineer if we go by a strict definitions. Engineers are accredited and in some countries even come with a title.

I started my career as a machine designer (mechanical engineering), designing some machines for FMCG factories.

It wasn't that much different from SWE - mostly looking up catalogs, connecting certain pre-made pieces together with custom parts and lots of testing of the final plan to make sure there are no collisions and every movement is constrained properly.

95% of the time no load or sizing calculations were necessary - we just oversized everything based on tacit knowledge (the greybeards reviewing the plans) since these machines were not mass produced and choosing somewhat bigger parts was not expensive given that these machines would operate and produce value 24/7 for years.

(I hope the analogy to software engineering is visible!)

What I'm saying is that the level of "engineering rigor" heavily depends on the field where engineers are operating within. Even certain SWE fields (healthcare, finance, aviation etc.) have more regulation and require more rigor than others.

Re: AI should elevate your thinking, not replace it

#425
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That I don't let agents run wild in a production environment?

You let them write code that runs in prod, which is the same thing with extra steps. Unless you review that code carefully, and then we're back to the point about it not saving you any cognitive overhead.

>> You let them write code that runs in prod, which is the same thing with extra steps.

The “with extra steps” is doing a lot of work in that sentence.

Re: AI should elevate your thinking, not replace it

#426
post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This requires logic, which LLMs lack. What? I've heard many takes on what AI lacks, but never this one. We had ChatGPT being able to solve an Erdős problem on its own yesterday [0]; how could you explain that if it cannot do logic? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47903126

LLM didn't solve an Erdos problem, it generated a text that a human looked at, cleaned up, corrected and used as base for a solution. WRT logic, there a multiple occasions of LLMs answering incorrectly to trivial logic puzzles. Of course, with each occasion becoming public they are added to training data and overfitted on, but if you embed them in a more subtle way LLMs will fail again.

From the article about the Erdos problem:

> “This one is a bit different because people did look at it, and the humans that looked at it just collectively made a slight wrong turn at move one,” says Terence Tao, a mathematician at the University of California, Los Angeles, who has become a prominent scorekeeper for AI’s push into his field. “What’s beginning to emerge is that the problem was maybe easier than expected, and it was like there was some kind of mental block.”

> “There was kind of a standard sequence of moves that everyone who worked on the problem previously started by doing,” Tao says. The LLM took an entirely different route, using a formula that was well known in related parts of math, but which no one had thought to apply to this type of question.

> “The raw output of ChatGPT’s proof was actually quite poor. So it required an expert to kind of sift through and actually understand what it was trying to say,” Lichtman says. But now he and Tao have shortened the proof so that it better distills the LLM’s key insight.

> More importantly, they already see other potential applications of the AI’s cognitive leap. “We have discovered a new way to think about large numbers and their anatomy,” Tao says. “It’s a nice achievement. I think the jury is still out on the long-term significance.”

You can debate whether the LLM used logic or not. I don't think you can debate that the LLM has in this case elevated human thinking, by leading us to a solution that had eluded world-class mathematicians for 60 years. And a new way to think "about large numbers and their anatomy".

And if it works for Terrence Tao and Erdos problems, then I'm certainly not above using AI to help brainstorm solutions for my little app at work.

Re: AI should elevate your thinking, not replace it

#427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you learn by struggling and slogging through, even as a senior if your shit breaks it's on you to understand why. no LLM will shortcut that process for you (even asking LLMs why something is wrong requires you to actually understand it eventually, aka LEARNING). how that happens is up to the person. i don't understand all this fear projected as if people won't have agency of learning just because LLMs make it easier…

I'd argue that the engineers of 20 years ago were better than the engineers of today because they were significantly more resource constrained and for example, would never use a 300mb javascript library for a profile page.

20 years ago we were complaining about steam being bloated and unnecessary, we were 6 months off vista being a bloated mess and the Office Ribbon debacle being in full swing. PC games were often half baked console ports with atrocious performance and filled with game breaking bugs. Software was super rigid - there was no real cross platform support. We were just heading into the core 2 duo realm and it was a mess.

Engineers sucked then as much as they suck now

Re: AI should elevate your thinking, not replace it

#428

There are plenty of engineers that couldn't work without a modern IDE or in languages without memory management. Or without the ability to use a library from GitHub / their package manager. It doesn't feel THAT much different to me. "Engineer" as a term might drift. There are "web developers" that can only use webflow / wordpress.

All those examples are fundamentally different because those are hard-coded, deterministic programs/algorithms/libraries.

Re: AI should elevate your thinking, not replace it

#429
post #174
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI coding isn’t an abstraction, though. You can’t treat a prompt like source code because it will give you a different output every time you use it. An abstraction lets you offload cognitive capacity while retaining knowledge of “what you are doing”. With AI coding either you need to carefully review outputs and you aren’t saving any cognitive capacity, or you aren’t looking at the outputs and don’t know what you’re…

Non-determinism is not as much of a problem as the lack of spec. C++ has the C++ norm, Python has its manual. One can refer to it to predict reliably how the program will behave without thinking of the generated assembly. LLMs have no spec.

The two come in hand.

Non determinism is what conveniently feels the gap of having no spec.

In fact turn temperature to 0. And it will be virtually deterministic. It exacerbates the problem that LLMs, as you rightly point out, have no spec.

Re: AI should elevate your thinking, not replace it

#430
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDEs are free. Libraries are free. Languages are free. This is becoming more like an internet subscription where you’re at the mercy of Anthropic the same way you may be at the mercy of Comcast. I’m sure you can see the difference between a garbage collector and a nondeterministic slop generator But it feels good to equivocate, so here we are.

> IDEs are free. Libraries are free. Languages are free. This is becoming more like an internet subscription where you’re at the mercy of Anthropic the same way you may be at the mercy of Comcast. Ollama/llamafile/vllm/llama.cpp are free. Qwen/kimi/deepseek are free. Pi.dev/OpenCode are free. If you're using a SaaS AI subscription that's fine, but that's hardly the only option.

The comparison to me sounds like "you dont have to take a plane to travel between countries, paddle boats exist".
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