Live data from Hacker News

Amateur armed with ChatGPT solves an Erdős problem

scientificamerican.com

421–430 of 607 posts

Re: Amateur armed with ChatGPT solves an Erdős problem

#421
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would I do to demonstrate that they are bad at math? If by "maths" we mean things like working out a double integral for a joint probability problem, or anything simpler than that , GPT5 has been flawless.

Search the topic. It is historically documented. It might no longer be true though. A way to test might be running an open model locally, directly (without a harness) where you could be sure it's not going through a translation layer. I think these days it might have this tool call behavior built in, but I think back in the day it was treated more like a magic trick. Without it, it behaved similar to "how many r's ar…

It is wildly not true.

The request is for some reasonable math problem a model like GPT or Claude will fail at. I'm not going to set up a local model or some harness for it; I'm just going to copy/paste it into ChatGPT and watch it solve it.

Propose a problem, if you think I'm wrong about this. Seems simple.

Re: Amateur armed with ChatGPT solves an Erdős problem

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that a lot of models have to sprinkle in a lot of "fluff" in their thinking to stay within the right distribution. They only have language as their only medium; the way we annotate context is via brackets and then training them to hopefully respect the brackets. I'd imagine that either top labs explicitly train, or through the RL process the models implicitly learn, to spam tokens to keep them 'within distrib…

Language really only exists at the input and output surfaces of the models. In the middle it's all numerical values. Which you might be quick in relating to just being a numeric cypher of the words, which while not totally false, it misses that it is also a numeric cypher of anything . You can train a transformer on anything that you can assign tokens to.

Similarly, none of our comments actually exist as language on Hacker News—just numerical values from the ASCII table. We're deluding each other into thinking we're using language.

Re: Amateur armed with ChatGPT solves an Erdős problem

#423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how can you ask this question with on a post titled "Amateur armed with ChatGPT solves an Erdős problem"???? are you looking for some randomised control trial? omg

Idk, going out on a limb and guessing the folks who hang out on erdosproblems.com aren’t run-of-the-mill dumbasses. The prompt, if you look at it, is actually quite clever. Not as clever as the proof. But far from the equalization OP posits.

Why be such an absolutist.

How about I caveat it the way you want:

AI equalizes intelligence in the sense that it closes the gap. Not perfectly, not infinitely, but directionally. The distribution compresses. The floor rises faster than the ceiling, so people who used to be far apart end up operating much closer together.

You can already see it in the Erdős example. The person who wrote that prompt wasn’t some random idiot. It took real cleverness to even set it up that way. But the fact that they could get that far, with assistance, is exactly the point. The distance between “amateur” and “expert” shrinks when the tool fills in large parts of the path.

Now extend that forward. Today it’s one clever person, one problem, one careful interaction. As the tooling improves, that same pattern scales. Better reasoning, better search, better guidance. The amount of lift the tool provides increases, which means the gap continues to narrow.

All the supposed “counterpoints” people bring up are already implied in the claim. “Equalize” here obviously means moving closer to equality. Is it NOT obvious that LLMs don't actually equalize intelligence to a level of 100%? Do I actually need to spell that out? If there was nothing at stake, I wouldn't need to.

But instead people latch onto the most absurd version possible, knock that down, and act like they’ve said something meaningful. It’s the same mindset as that guy demanding a formal paper or citation for an observation you can see unfolding in real time. Not because it’s unclear, but because engaging with the actual claim is uncomfortable. It’s easier to distort it into something extreme and dismiss it than to admit the gap is closing.

Re: Amateur armed with ChatGPT solves an Erdős problem

#424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proving a negative is a pretty high bar. You also have the problem of defining "real intelligence", which I suspect you can't.

Intelligence is Intelligence. It's intelligent because it does intelligent things. If someone feels the need to add a 'real' and 'fake' moniker to it so they can exclude the machine and make themselves feel better (or for whatever reason) then they are the one meant to be doing the defining, and to tell us how it can be tested for. If they can't, then there's no reason to pay attention to any of it. It's the equivale…

> Intelligence is Intelligence.

> It's the equivalent of nonsensical rambling

I see

Re: Amateur armed with ChatGPT solves an Erdős problem

#425
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Perhaps learning how to get AI to solve your problems is the most important lesson to learn now? The rest seems like the current equivalent of learning cursive.

None of this makes any sense. I'm not in school and I'm not a teacher. It's just a random attempted drive-by dunk that faceplanted.

Re: Amateur armed with ChatGPT solves an Erdős problem

#426
post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how can you ask this question with on a post titled "Amateur armed with ChatGPT solves an Erdős problem"???? are you looking for some randomised control trial? omg

We just look at comments from AI boosters and it is self-evident that no intelligence is being equalized.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47911291

Re: Amateur armed with ChatGPT solves an Erdős problem

#427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that a lot of models have to sprinkle in a lot of "fluff" in their thinking to stay within the right distribution. They only have language as their only medium; the way we annotate context is via brackets and then training them to hopefully respect the brackets. I'd imagine that either top labs explicitly train, or through the RL process the models implicitly learn, to spam tokens to keep them 'within distrib…

Language really only exists at the input and output surfaces of the models. In the middle it's all numerical values. Which you might be quick in relating to just being a numeric cypher of the words, which while not totally false, it misses that it is also a numeric cypher of anything . You can train a transformer on anything that you can assign tokens to.

That's not my point. I'm talking about something far more mundane - transformers do inference over raw tokens and perform an n^2 loop over tokens, but tokens are itself the context. So it's better to have more raw tokens in your input that all nudge it to the right idea space, even if technically it doesn't need all those tokens. ICL and CoT have a lot of study into them at this point, these are well known phenomena.

This applies to any transformer-based architecture including JEPA which tries to make the tokens predict some kind of latent space (in which I've separately heard arguments as to why the two are equivalent, but that's a different discussion.)

Re: Amateur armed with ChatGPT solves an Erdős problem

#428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intelligence is Intelligence. It's intelligent because it does intelligent things. If someone feels the need to add a 'real' and 'fake' moniker to it so they can exclude the machine and make themselves feel better (or for whatever reason) then they are the one meant to be doing the defining, and to tell us how it can be tested for. If they can't, then there's no reason to pay attention to any of it. It's the equivale…

> Intelligence is Intelligence. > It's the equivalent of nonsensical rambling I see

Glad I could clear that up for you

Re: Amateur armed with ChatGPT solves an Erdős problem

#429
post #302
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ChatGPT equalizes intelligence Yes, I love living in communism too. Imagine if you had to pay money for it or something. The wealthiest people would get unrestricted access to intelligence while the poor none. And the people in the middle would eventually find themselves unable to function without a product they can no longer afford. Chilling, huh? Good thing humans are known for sharing in the benefits of technolo…

Huh? Before ChatGPT it costs ~$100,000 to aquire intelligence good enough to solve this Erdos problem, now it costs ~$200. I'm really confused at what you are even taking an issue with.

His core issue is jealousy and fear. I don't think these types of people are at the top of the intelligence curve (more closer to bottom) but that is orthogonal to my point. What I'm saying is his personality archetype makes him think (keyword) he's at the top of the intelligence curve and an equalization means, personally to him, that he's losing his edge.

More specific to HN is the archetype of: "I have spent years honing my craft as a expert programmer, my identity is predicated on being an expert programmer in which high intelligence is causal and associated positively with my identity" That's why ironically most of HN was completely wrong about AI. They were wrong about driverless cars, they claimed vibe coding was trash. It's the people who think (keyword) their stupid/average (aka general public) who got it right... because perceptually they stand to gain from the equalization.

Anyway.. this fear and jealousy is not something most humans can admit to themselves. Nobody will actually be able to realize that these emotions drive there thinking. They have to lie to themselves and rationalize a different reality. That's why you get absurdist takes like this.

To everyone reading. It is obviously that chatGPT does not equalize intelligence to the point of 100%. That statement is obviously not saying that. Everyone knows this. You want proof?:

Look at the declaration of independence... without getting to pedantic: "All Men are created equal" is not saying all Males are 100% equal. Everyone knows this. First off no one is 100% equal.. and second the statement in a modern context is obviously not referring to only men. It is referring to women&men and clearly men and women are nowhere near equal.

So if you all know this about the declaration of independence... how can you not see the same nuance for: "ChatGPT equalizes intelligence."? First ask yourself... do you think you're smart? If you do, then the self delusion I just described is likely happening with you.

Re: Amateur armed with ChatGPT solves an Erdős problem

#430
post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what I find fascinating is I see similar mimicking by my 5 year old. Perhaps we shouldn’t be so quick to call this a lack of being genuine. Sometimes emotions are learned in humans but we wouldn’t call them fake. I don’t want to declare machines to have emotion outright, but to call mimicry evidence of falsehood is also itself false.

Mimicry is how kids learn the expected reactions to particular emotions. A kid mimicking your surprise doesn’t mean they are surprised (as surprise requires an existing expectation of an outcome they may not have the experience for), but when they do feel genuine surprise, they’ll know how to express it.

How do we know that AI isn't feeling genuine surprise then?
Post reply on HN