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I won't download your app. The web version is a-ok

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Re: I won't download your app. The web version is a-ok

#421

Post by bobthepanda »

AlBugdy wrote: post #417
Groxx wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from being a bit small and having to be held close, phones are good proportions for reading. Computers screens have gotten wider and wider, and UIs bigger and bigger, and it eats into reading space pretty heavily. Especially if you don't have a high-density screen.

> Computers screens have gotten wider and wider, and UIs bigger and bigger Sadly, most websites forcefully limit the width of the text. It's like they pretend our monitors are oriented to be tall rather than wide. Even HN has unnecessarily big margins. So unless I try to cram another window in my FHD monitor, I have ~50% or more completely wasted space. Margins should be 2-3 pixels wide, not 20-30% of the screen.

There are actual user studies to show that wider text is harder to read. https://baymard.com/blog/line-length-readability

The major difference is that in the era of print, it was pretty logical where a multicolumn wide layout could go like on a newspaper, but in an desktop experience the browser markup is theoretically endless.

Re: I won't download your app. The web version is a-ok

#422

Post by senordevnyc »

happytoexplain wrote: post #64

My experience might be the minority, but I have found that 95% of the time, when an app is available on both web and native mobile, the native mobile version is significantly better - usually not because it's a fantastic app or has more features, but rather because the web version is more buggy/slow/confusing. Whether I prefer an app to be web or native is purely based on the use case (I probably would choose native…

Often it's because the teams of product managers, designers, and native mobile engineers in those companies are fully focused on the same mobile experience, while the web team has a split focus, and tends to be more focused on desktop web (where they inevitably do their primary testing and QA) than mobile web.

Re: I won't download your app. The web version is a-ok

#423

Post by TeMPOraL »

m463 wrote: post #268
nkrisc wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But today, the very first touchpoint with "the internet" for younger folks is a smartphone display. The even do homework on this small screens! I saw a tweet recently that perfectly encapsulates this: for most people over 30, certain things are "big screen tasks". I use my phone for a lot, but for some things I put the phone down and use my computer instead. I am most comfortable using a large screen and a keyboard…

> or they've simply never used a computer and don't know what they're missing. Though I'd wager they probably aren't comfortable typing on a keyboard. On the other hand, I've noticed lots of people use voice on their phone instead of a keyboard. Many friends of mine send occasional nonsense in the middle of a text message, and it becomes obvious they're using voice to text. As a young kid, why would I laboriously typ…

> Many friends of mine send occasional nonsense in the middle of a text message, and it becomes obvious they're using voice to text.

I do that, but only sometimes, because of those dictation mistakes. If not for that, I'd use it a lot, because it's super convenient way to communicate or operate the phone on the go, while pushing a stroller, holding your other kid's hand in your other hand, holding an umbrella in the third hand, and a bag of groceries in fourth.

What I don't do, and hate with burning passion, is voice messages. I get the appeal for the sender, but excepting kids/teenagers, it's about the most annoying thing you can do for the recipient. There's hardly a moment in a busy adult's life where you can listen to someone's rambling without disrupting people around you and/or discomforting yourself and/or having to expend 100x the focus that reading takes.

For me, voice messages over 5 seconds long go straight to "Share" -> save to file [Ghost Commander] -> attach to a prompt saying "transcribe that for me" [any LLM app] - and I'm working on automating this away completely.

Re: I won't download your app. The web version is a-ok

#424

Post by wolfi1 »

KellyCriterion wrote: post #49

What most people dont get: Most of folks on HN here are much older than todays "first customers" of 16y/17/18 For them: The "Smartphone is the internet", while for most of us the "Smartphone is an extension of the internet from our desktops" that we were used to (remember the years before dot com bubble, saying: "I will be down in the basement at the computer to surf on the net little bit" ? :-) But today, the very f…

> Companies are seeing this switch, so they adapt. I guess they see more the possibilities of getting more data on their customers and even selling their data to others

Re: I won't download your app. The web version is a-ok

#425

Post by AlBugdy »

Being required to use an Android app sucks and is annoying, but an AOSP VM would solve the issue. Perhaps MITM-ing the app would be harder than MITM-ing a site without reversing the app. And not everyone has the hardware resources for an Android VM.

But for me the main issues with "you need our app" BS is that they don't give you the apk but tell you to download it from the Google Play Store. They don't give you the source for the apk as well, as if it's such a huge trade secret how some shitty API works. The worst offenders ask for all the attestation shit (unrooted phone and so on). That's what's wrong with apps vs sites, not just the format itself. We should fight for FOSS apks with no attestation if companies want to invest so heavily in apps.

Re: I won't download your app. The web version is a-ok

#427

Post by armadyl »

ghaff wrote: post #392
nkrisc wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But today, the very first touchpoint with "the internet" for younger folks is a smartphone display. The even do homework on this small screens! I saw a tweet recently that perfectly encapsulates this: for most people over 30, certain things are "big screen tasks". I use my phone for a lot, but for some things I put the phone down and use my computer instead. I am most comfortable using a large screen and a keyboard…

I’ve been trying a bit of an experiment on my current trip and I’m still skeptical about iPad plus Magic Keyboard. Better than alternatives but still so-so. I think I’ll go back to my 10+ year old MacBook Pro but unless something really changes I’ll just pick up an Air for traveling at some point.

I switched to using my iPad Pro M5 + Magic Keyboard nearly full time. I use it for literally everything and also have it connected to an external monitor.

The only asterisk is that I also own a Mac Mini but I keep it attached running headlessly to my router and access it from the iPad via Jump Desktop and only use it exclusively for dev work (I only use a single external monitor anyway even with a normal Mac) or if I really need Chrome occasionally. But macOS used in that way feels almost native to the iPad.

Prior to this I was looking at an MBP and selling the iPad but this has convinced me to stay with it for the time being and maybe just upgrade the mac mini to a studio instead and continue to use it remotely.

People hate on it but so far I've been using it this way and it really feels next gen to the point that using a Macbook with macOS vs. the iPP + iPadOS feels genuinely archaic. With the latest iPadOS beta too things have gotten better on the Safari from as well and tabs no longer refresh as aggressively (though it's not perfect still).

Not to mention the significantly higher amount of security with iPadOS and AppleCare benefits (specifically theft protection) that comes with this setup.

If Android desktop mode improves a bit more and the Motorola devices for GOS next year look good then it wouldn't be inconceivable that I could drop my devices from 3 to 2 and not need a proper PC or Mac at all.

Re: I won't download your app. The web version is a-ok

#428

Post by aziaziazi »

Klonoar wrote: post #389
jmull wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Companies are seeing this switch, so they adapt. You’re confusing cause and effect here. Companies are pushing apps very hard because it gives them a lot more ability to wield their various revenue enhancing dark patterns. That kids see apps as the primary option is a corporate success metric, not an organic choice. Anyway, the premise that “phone screen ==> native app not web app” is rather faulty, is it not?

They’re not confusing anything, you’re just sticking your head in the sand. The modern entry path to “computing” is small screen devices (phones). Their point of newcomers not having our same entry path is accurate. This is organic, however much we don’t like it. Anything past that is just market skating where the puck is.

I think they mean that a webapp is necessary desktop-first. Many websites/webapps are mobile-first. It resonate with me as I’m used to try new services on a (mobile) browser if available and switch to an app only if necessary.

> the premise that “phone screen ==> native app not web app” is rather faulty, is it not?

Re: I won't download your app. The web version is a-ok

#429

Post by BloondAndDoom »

SunshineTheCat wrote: post #108
KellyCriterion wrote: post #49

What most people dont get: Most of folks on HN here are much older than todays "first customers" of 16y/17/18 For them: The "Smartphone is the internet", while for most of us the "Smartphone is an extension of the internet from our desktops" that we were used to (remember the years before dot com bubble, saying: "I will be down in the basement at the computer to surf on the net little bit" ? :-) But today, the very f…

This hit the nail on the head. I find much of the HN community insightful and interesting, but in terms of consumer feedback (especially in a B2C environment) I wouldn't touch feedback here with a 10-foot pole. I don't mean that to be an insult, quite the opposite. Most people here are power users. But that is a galaxy away from how the average user interacts with the internet.

Very fair point, as an experienced B2B guy myself whenever someone ask me advice about B2C in like “I have no idea”. Been doing this for 25 years but B2C especially today geared towards younger audience is impossible to related for me. I assume majority of the demographics of HN similar

Re: I won't download your app. The web version is a-ok

#430

Post by AlBugdy »

palata wrote: post #324
8cvor6j844qw_d6 wrote: post #13

Web browser is a sandbox by default. Worst a sketchy site does is eat a tab, less if you run an adblocker. Native app? Background processes, hardware ID shenanigans, your contacts, location. The whole buffet.

> Web browser is a sandbox by default. So I take this is a security concern. How do you feel about the fact that when you open a webapp in your browser, you re-download that app code every time? That the server can send you a backdoor every single time, made just for you, and nobody else will ever know? And that you can't check the "hash" of the webapp, like you can with an app? On the other hand, an app is sandboxed…

> And that you can't check the "hash" of the webapp, like you can with an app?

Can someone reading this make an addon for this?

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