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Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#421

Post by guiambros »

dimmke wrote: post #310
coldtea wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They sell metered usage while having the implied expectation that most wont use it fully. Power users and users of stuff like OpenClaw don't match that idea. So they further restricted the metered caps, which were only offered to NOT be reached by that many. Simple as that.

>Power users and users of stuff like OpenClaw don't match that idea. Then they should figure out how to structure an offering that accommodates this type of usage not just blanket ban it

They did: just use the metered API.

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#423

Post by djfergus »

xtracto wrote: post #250
j45 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Efficient token use will be the new code/vim golf. Whether it's human token use, or future OpenClaws

I've mention before that we should have a look at Telegraph/telegram speak. There was a HUGE industry in word efficiency at that time. There are hundreds of books. I even think an LLM trained to communicate using telegram style might even be faster and way cheaper.

Reminds me of the terminus agent/harness on the terminal-bench coding benchmark - they just send send keystrokes to a tmux session. They score pretty well.

https://www.tbench.ai/news/terminus

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#424

Post by mech422 »

alwa wrote: post #405
mech422 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you can write automated MCP tools that run within claude code, and could theoretically generate as high a load as any other automated/3rd party agent. You can also do loops that burn tokens incredibly fast. This is allowed with no caveats (I use MCP's basically to test what I'd like to try with the API...) So this explanation just seems a lil hollow.

When you can’t enforce everything at once, you go where the most acute problems are. I imagine when your MCP avenue of abuse catches on—like this other category of harnesses did—to such a scale as to become a problem impacting us folk trying to go about our business… when that’s where the problems shift, I imagine (and hope) Anthropic will crack down on that vector too. To keep the service usable for us ordinary meat…

>>when your MCP avenue of abuse catches on

Thats an interesting way of phrasing it - so is there a way to use the quota that's not 'abuse'? MCP/claude code seems to be want they want you to use it - are loops or ralph abuse as well ?

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#425

Post by hgoel »

This seems like a reasonable move even putting aside the reasoning about breaking the assumptions that make a subscription model cheaper than a pay-per-use model.

Why would they actively subsidize the ticking timebomb? When OpenClaw has an especially large security incident, Anthropic will probably be affected just for the association.

Like, right alongside this post on the front page, we have a post about a relatively serious privilege escalation vulnerability in OpenClaw.

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#426

Post by [deleted] »

goosejuice wrote: post #160
jesse_dot_id wrote: post #73

There seem to be a ton of people who don't understand how subscription services work. Every single one of them oversells their capacity. The power users that use the services a lot are subsidized by those who don't use it as much, which tends to be the vast majority of the user base. OpenClaw is an autonomous power user. The growing adoption of this walking attack surface was either going to A) cause the cost of Clau…

What you're saying is conceptually true for subscription services in general, but thats not why they are making this change. There's a 5 hour limit and a weekly limit. Those are hard token limits. Everyone on a plan pays for the max set of tokens in that plan. The limits manage capacity. The solution to that isn't a change of ToS, it's adjusting the limits. In other words this is about Anthropic subsidizing their own…

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#427

Post by guelo »

goosejuice wrote: post #160
jesse_dot_id wrote: post #73

There seem to be a ton of people who don't understand how subscription services work. Every single one of them oversells their capacity. The power users that use the services a lot are subsidized by those who don't use it as much, which tends to be the vast majority of the user base. OpenClaw is an autonomous power user. The growing adoption of this walking attack surface was either going to A) cause the cost of Clau…

What you're saying is conceptually true for subscription services in general, but thats not why they are making this change. There's a 5 hour limit and a weekly limit. Those are hard token limits. Everyone on a plan pays for the max set of tokens in that plan. The limits manage capacity. The solution to that isn't a change of ToS, it's adjusting the limits. In other words this is about Anthropic subsidizing their own…

How many tokens does the $20/month buy me? I want to know what those hard token limits are but they refuse to tell me. I'm pretty sure they've reduced those limits the last week but they won't admit it. It feels like a scammy pricing model.

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#428

Post by lherron »

jmalicki wrote: post #190
goosejuice wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're saying is conceptually true for subscription services in general, but thats not why they are making this change. There's a 5 hour limit and a weekly limit. Those are hard token limits. Everyone on a plan pays for the max set of tokens in that plan. The limits manage capacity. The solution to that isn't a change of ToS, it's adjusting the limits. In other words this is about Anthropic subsidizing their own…

You aren't paying to be using that limit all of the time. You are paying to be using that limit some of the time. There are 5 hour windows when you are sleeping and can't use it. There are weekend limits. Theoretically you can max out every 5 hour window, but they lose money on that. It's structured so users can have bursts of unlimited usage, and spend ~15% of the theoretical max cap, and that's still cheaper than a…

I think maybe you are not familiar with what /loop and the Claude cron tools do.

https://code.claude.com/docs/en/scheduled-tasks

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#429

Post by aenis »

goosejuice wrote: post #385
Nevermark wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone on a plan pays for the max set of tokens in that plan. From Anthropic's perspective, everyone pays to be in bins with a given max. And to everyone's benefit, there is a wide distribution of actual use. Most people pay for the convenience of knowing they have a max if they need it, not so they always use it. So Anthropic does something nice, and drops the price for everyone. They kick back some of the (actu…

Yes, mostly what I'm saying, but forgetting the important part: From the email: > but these tools put an outsized strain on our systems. Capacity is a resource we manage carefully and we need to prioritize our customers using our core products OpenClaw doesn't put an outsized strain on their systems any more than Anthropics own tools. They just happen to have more demand than they can serve and they benefit more when…

If this was a gym subscription, it would be an equivalent of some people going to the gym, and some people sending their android to the gym every day, for the whole day, and using as much equipment as the gym policy allows.

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#430

Post by cortesoft »

alasano wrote: post #3

"these tools put an outsized strain on our systems" AKA when you fully use the capacity you paid for, that's too much!

Except no, you aren't paying the full capacity of using all of your limits every time. The subscription cost is less than it would take to actually pay for the capacity of the limits. That is how these sorts of subscriptions work.

You can pay for the capacity, using the per token price.

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